The value of grass roots movements cannot be overstated, http://www.getup.org.au/ and
www.walkagainstwarming.org & Nature Conservation Council of NSW have contributed to positive change occurring in Australia, but it takes the continued efforts of all of us to remind whichever party which has been elected to honour their promises and commitments to all Australians. In particular the environment cannot be pushed aside for political expediency. We are the people who keep parties in power, and change was and is needed, but just because the election has past, we cannot afford to let our energies drop, forward moves for the environment are needed now.
I would suggest that everyone look at these sites for GetUp, and Nature Conservation Council of Australia, Walk Against Warming, and support their work. Keeping politicians in touch with grass roots opinions, and making sure they continue to work towards positive change for the environment is essential, for there is no time to waste.
What do you personally feel needs to be brought to the attention of Politicians? We will send your suggestions on to politicians.
Let us begin this movement now, we will call it, ''One World, One Vision''- people united with one voice. We stand as guardians of this planet we call home.
Other than sign the Kyoto agreement which now the Australian Government must do, what can you see needs to be brought to the attention of Governments across the globe? Your opinion counts!
Monday, November 26, 2007
Thursday, November 1, 2007
The Federal Election- Ethics and Values are they missing?
We live in a world of great change, and it is amazing to me that concerns within Australia which were never considered previously are suddenly on the Political agenda, and money thrown around as a bribe to achieve votes. Where do Values, ethics, compassion for people and genuine concern and action for environment come into it? This election is critical for preventing any escalation Global Warming, and changing Australian Politics from fear driven negative energies, to creating positive change. What do you think?*
Values- Mick from Grafton.
Now that an election is drawing very near, it is probably a good time to reflect on our values, ethics and morals as a nation. What is it that Australia, and being an Australian, stands for or represents these days?
Have we become a nation of “I’m alright Jack” self centred individuals, who care nothing for the suffering going on all around the planet. Do we care about anything but ourselves and our immediate needs? We are happy to trade with China; it brings in billions of dollars to the economy and keeps a relatively small number of people in high paying mining jobs.
However, China invaded Tibet, killed large numbers of Tibetans, ruthlessly suppressed their religion, and lately has brought in large numbers of Chinese to Tibet, so that they now outnumber the Tibetans (ethnic cleansing). Also, China executes or imprisons political dissidents, and other “criminals”- such as practitioners of Falung Gong meditation. And some of the Chinese goods you buy are produced by slave labour in prison camps. But hey, trade is good for the economy, so who really cares how China treats its minorities and dissenters! Perhaps we will have cause to regret this trade down the track a few years – we exported scrap iron to Japan prior to World War 2, and had it re-exported in a form we did not appreciate during the war.
Another indicator of our rapidly declining standards (ethics and morals) is the fact that many political parties and politicians blatantly lie to the electorate, distort facts, or rely on fear and scare tactics to get re-elected, and the voting public are accepting of this behaviour. The Wheat Board got caught out paying bribe money to the Saddam Hussein regime to sell our wheat there. This regime was later considered so heinous that it was necessary to invade Iraq to get rid of the ruthless dictator who ran it. Yours and my tax dollars are being spent maintaining Australian troops in Iraq, when we were paying bribes to them before. Does this strike you as inconsistent? However, there are some in Australia who think that the only mistake made was in getting caught – it doesn’t matter who you deal with, as long as you are making money out of it! There is also much greed and unethical practices amongst our corporations and their management. Fraud, embezzlement and price fixing rear their ugly heads from time to time. Governments are reluctant to police many of these matters because it would mean offending those they take political donations from (e.g. Tobacco Companies which deliberately target children to get them addicted at an early age). Mark Twain commented that it was difficult to get someone to understand something when their pay packet depended on them not understanding it.
We also seem to have caught the scourge of materialism from America. Our lives seem to revolve around our possessions. We continually want more, bigger, better, the latest model, etc. We will often replace an item that is working satisfactorily just because we can. We define ourselves by our “status” in a materialistic world – how much we earn, how much “stuff” we have, do we have the right “look”, are we keeping up with the Joneses. Many of the financial pressures Australians are under at the moment are self created. Our parents and grandparents started out in small modest houses. Now we “want it all”, up front, with all of the bells and whistles - two car garage, en-suites, central heating and cooling, fully carpeted, huge rooms, in-ground swimming pool and spa.
The environment that sustains us is having to pay the cost for this crass and mindless materialism and greed.
Other signs of declining values in Australia are the return of racism, cruelty to animals, religious intolerance, zenophobia (fear of foreigners or anything “different”), homophobia, and the worrying rise of religious fundamentalist fanatics. These are all bad portents for the future of Australia as a tolerance, just and free society. Apathy is also a sign of our declining values, and unwillingness to take a stand on anything. Socrates made the famous statement that “the unexamined life is not worth living”. Unfortunately, today many people would not even understand what this statement means, as their thought processes and character are so shallow that they could adequately be replaced by a two dimensional cardboard cut out representation of themselves. Money and the economy are *_not_* all important! We are defined by what we do, and how we behave, and not by what we say (empty talk), or what we own.
It is time to make a stand, show courage and character, be prepared to stand apart from the mindless herd, as an individual of worth. Your survival _will_ depend on it!
Values- Mick from Grafton.
Now that an election is drawing very near, it is probably a good time to reflect on our values, ethics and morals as a nation. What is it that Australia, and being an Australian, stands for or represents these days?
Have we become a nation of “I’m alright Jack” self centred individuals, who care nothing for the suffering going on all around the planet. Do we care about anything but ourselves and our immediate needs? We are happy to trade with China; it brings in billions of dollars to the economy and keeps a relatively small number of people in high paying mining jobs.
However, China invaded Tibet, killed large numbers of Tibetans, ruthlessly suppressed their religion, and lately has brought in large numbers of Chinese to Tibet, so that they now outnumber the Tibetans (ethnic cleansing). Also, China executes or imprisons political dissidents, and other “criminals”- such as practitioners of Falung Gong meditation. And some of the Chinese goods you buy are produced by slave labour in prison camps. But hey, trade is good for the economy, so who really cares how China treats its minorities and dissenters! Perhaps we will have cause to regret this trade down the track a few years – we exported scrap iron to Japan prior to World War 2, and had it re-exported in a form we did not appreciate during the war.
Another indicator of our rapidly declining standards (ethics and morals) is the fact that many political parties and politicians blatantly lie to the electorate, distort facts, or rely on fear and scare tactics to get re-elected, and the voting public are accepting of this behaviour. The Wheat Board got caught out paying bribe money to the Saddam Hussein regime to sell our wheat there. This regime was later considered so heinous that it was necessary to invade Iraq to get rid of the ruthless dictator who ran it. Yours and my tax dollars are being spent maintaining Australian troops in Iraq, when we were paying bribes to them before. Does this strike you as inconsistent? However, there are some in Australia who think that the only mistake made was in getting caught – it doesn’t matter who you deal with, as long as you are making money out of it! There is also much greed and unethical practices amongst our corporations and their management. Fraud, embezzlement and price fixing rear their ugly heads from time to time. Governments are reluctant to police many of these matters because it would mean offending those they take political donations from (e.g. Tobacco Companies which deliberately target children to get them addicted at an early age). Mark Twain commented that it was difficult to get someone to understand something when their pay packet depended on them not understanding it.
We also seem to have caught the scourge of materialism from America. Our lives seem to revolve around our possessions. We continually want more, bigger, better, the latest model, etc. We will often replace an item that is working satisfactorily just because we can. We define ourselves by our “status” in a materialistic world – how much we earn, how much “stuff” we have, do we have the right “look”, are we keeping up with the Joneses. Many of the financial pressures Australians are under at the moment are self created. Our parents and grandparents started out in small modest houses. Now we “want it all”, up front, with all of the bells and whistles - two car garage, en-suites, central heating and cooling, fully carpeted, huge rooms, in-ground swimming pool and spa.
The environment that sustains us is having to pay the cost for this crass and mindless materialism and greed.
Other signs of declining values in Australia are the return of racism, cruelty to animals, religious intolerance, zenophobia (fear of foreigners or anything “different”), homophobia, and the worrying rise of religious fundamentalist fanatics. These are all bad portents for the future of Australia as a tolerance, just and free society. Apathy is also a sign of our declining values, and unwillingness to take a stand on anything. Socrates made the famous statement that “the unexamined life is not worth living”. Unfortunately, today many people would not even understand what this statement means, as their thought processes and character are so shallow that they could adequately be replaced by a two dimensional cardboard cut out representation of themselves. Money and the economy are *_not_* all important! We are defined by what we do, and how we behave, and not by what we say (empty talk), or what we own.
It is time to make a stand, show courage and character, be prepared to stand apart from the mindless herd, as an individual of worth. Your survival _will_ depend on it!
Tuesday, October 23, 2007
Human Rights- and Burma
With the recent atrocities in Burma the plight of those who suffer at the hands of military dictatorships was highlighted. What do you think of a world which allows some countries to be invaded under the guise of concern for democracy (those which contain oil) and yet other countries plight to be ignored?
Our Brother’s Keeper…
When one of us suffers injustice we all suffer, and where we remain complacent and silent while another suffers we are as much responsible for the suffering as are the perpetrators of such crimes against Humanity. One of the more recent examples of the violation of human rights to flash across our TV screens has occurred as the result of the Myanmar Governments crackdown and imprisonment of pro Democracy protestors in Burma.
Many peaceful protestors are still currently imprisoned for exercising a basic human right which so many of us here take for granted, Freedom of speech. I believe there are many ways we can each petition for the release of all Burmese political prisoners including the many Buddhist Monks without adding to the current anger, hatred and intolerance of the present military regime. Speak out and be heard yes, without doubt, but not with hate, malice and or destructive words and energies but with love. A greater love which will not stand back silent and watch another suffer. The compassionate heart so aptly expressed in the symbol of the sacred Lotus. Remind those who would imprison and torture that out of the darkness of ignorance, fear and brutality there is yet beauty that can come from such experiences and circumstances.
If you should feel so inclined post, fax, email pictures of lotus flowers to the Burmese authorities and other local and overseas government bodies or institutions with blessings calling upon their higher conscience to action.
Perhaps you may even wish to add some words such as those spoken so eloquently by Victor Hugo. “There is one thing stronger than all the armies of the World,
And that is an idea whose time has come…”
Remind them that out of the mud of darkness and ignorance true beauty can come. A compassionate call for the immediate release of all Burmese political prisoners.
Or better still, check out all the great works undertaken by Amnesty International and get involved! Never underestimate your power to help, in being a voice of conscience for those abused and mistreated. Support organizations such as ‘Amnesty International’ for truly without their light the world would be in a much darker space.
Michelle
Our Brother’s Keeper…
When one of us suffers injustice we all suffer, and where we remain complacent and silent while another suffers we are as much responsible for the suffering as are the perpetrators of such crimes against Humanity. One of the more recent examples of the violation of human rights to flash across our TV screens has occurred as the result of the Myanmar Governments crackdown and imprisonment of pro Democracy protestors in Burma.
Many peaceful protestors are still currently imprisoned for exercising a basic human right which so many of us here take for granted, Freedom of speech. I believe there are many ways we can each petition for the release of all Burmese political prisoners including the many Buddhist Monks without adding to the current anger, hatred and intolerance of the present military regime. Speak out and be heard yes, without doubt, but not with hate, malice and or destructive words and energies but with love. A greater love which will not stand back silent and watch another suffer. The compassionate heart so aptly expressed in the symbol of the sacred Lotus. Remind those who would imprison and torture that out of the darkness of ignorance, fear and brutality there is yet beauty that can come from such experiences and circumstances.
If you should feel so inclined post, fax, email pictures of lotus flowers to the Burmese authorities and other local and overseas government bodies or institutions with blessings calling upon their higher conscience to action.
Perhaps you may even wish to add some words such as those spoken so eloquently by Victor Hugo. “There is one thing stronger than all the armies of the World,
And that is an idea whose time has come…”
Remind them that out of the mud of darkness and ignorance true beauty can come. A compassionate call for the immediate release of all Burmese political prisoners.
Or better still, check out all the great works undertaken by Amnesty International and get involved! Never underestimate your power to help, in being a voice of conscience for those abused and mistreated. Support organizations such as ‘Amnesty International’ for truly without their light the world would be in a much darker space.
Michelle
Climate Change - What can we do to help?
The impact of environmental disasters will affect us all in one way or another what can you personally do to aid the world in general and your family?
Climate Change and You
By now many people are starting to take climate change seriously (except perhaps for our Federal and State Governments). Farmer’s got all excited after one decent fall of rain in last few years and thought that the drought was over, and being climate optimists (or having large debts to service) they borrowed more money so that they could put in a crop, and hope for a bumper harvest. What we have witnessed since has been seedlings wilting and dying from lack of any follow up rain. The drought isn’t over, it also isn’t a drought that will suddenly end, and everything will be back as it was in the “good old days”, so that we can carry on with the behaviour patterns of the past. What we are witnessing is just the start of rapid climate shifts around the planet. Far worse is yet to come. World grain prices are going through the roof as crop yields in Australia and many other grain producing areas are either much lower that expected, or have largely failed due to erratic rainfall. Other areas are experiencing severe flooding, e.g. sub Saharan Africa, parts of Europe and South East Asia. In an ironic twist, while many crops are dying for lack of rain, other crops have been destroyed by floods and prolonged inundation.
Our food supply system is dependent on inputs of vast quantities of petroleum products (diesel, petrol, oil). Petroleum products are needed in the production and transportation of foods, and in the production of herbicides and pesticides that are used to protect the crops from insects, diseases and competition species (weeds). And as anyone with a car will know, fuel supplies are dwindling and prices rising. The petroleum is running out, the human population continues to grow exponentially, and our soils and ecosystems are being rapidly depleted. A triple whammy! What this means to you and me personally, is that we are entering a period where food supplies will become unpredictable, and many shortages with concurrent high prices will occur. It is therefore time to start making preparations to allow you to reduce the effect that food shortages will mean to you and your family. It is time to start learning how to be more self sufficient in many ways. So what can you do to prepare yourself for what is coming? Plant fruit and nut trees around your property. Get them in now, they take several years to grow large enough to give you a good yield, and get their root systems down deep. Those with larger properties are luckier in that they have room to plant more fruit and nut trees, while those with quarter acre blocks can still find room for a least half a dozen fruit trees. I found room on my ¼ acre block for an apricot tree, a plum tree, a mandarin tree, a mulberry tree, a macadamia tree, a fig, a Calimata olive, a pear tree, an apple tree, two passionfruit vines (growing on wires strung along the back fences), and a blueberry bush. There was already a good sized Mango tree, a grape vine, Lady Finger Banana trees and a peach tree growing in the yard when I purchased the property. I also found room for 3 Oak trees, 2 Deodar Cedars and a Lacebark tree. So don’t tell me you don’t have any room to plant anything. I have had a couple of failures, frost killed the paw paw tree and the lychee tree did nothing for a year and then died.
The next projects for me are a vegetable patch (in a raised garden bed since I have clay and not soil on my property), a large water tank, and at some stage if I have sufficient money, solar hot water and a few solar panels. Those of you who are renting can still do something. You can grow vegetables in those foam boxes that you can get from the green grocer. Just add potting mix, fertiliser and some seeds (or seedlings) and water. The rest is up to nature. You can also have some fruit trees growing in large pots that you can take with you when you move. There are grafted fruit trees that have 2 or 3 types of fruit on the one root stock. You can also grow fruit trees espaliered along walls of courtyards or fences. If you get motivated enough to grow your own, you eventually might want to make or buy fruit and vegetable drying racks so that you can store excesses from summer to tide you through the winter. Those with enough room, and who don’t mind the hassles can also entertain the idea of having egg laying chickens in a coop. You can trade your surpluses with someone else for what they have to offer.
In this brief treatise, I have given you some hints as to what you can do to prepare for the future. Remember all of these things take time to grow or bring into reality, and if you leave it till too late to start, then it is you (and your stomach) that will bear the consequences.
Michael
Sunday, September 30, 2007
Sandro Botticelli, Leonardo da Vinci, Isaac Newton on the APEC summit
Welcome one and all to our discussion group, and tonight we summon all of great light to broadcast this light in a joint effort to raise mass consciousness. During this discussion night you will hear words such as expansive, incorporated light, and enhanced capacity. These are key words.Let your mind expand and hold focus for this time of revelation, that as light comes so too do actions and energies of those who oppose the greater light to come. We have called you all together tonight to give a gift to the world, one which will give a burst of light so great into the mass consciousness that this expansion of consciousness makes it possible for closed minds to open, if only a little to give to the world a gift far more beautiful than now experienced. Now we are offering you a chance to change this way your world functions.Its now exactly one day that this Apex Summit has officially commenced, but energies are not high enough, are rigid and stubborn arrogance is there, where individual countries see only their own economic rationalism as all important.
We plan to change that with incorporated light being burst into the grid system, so hearts and minds are opened to the fullness of possibilities.Australia is a lucky country they say, perhaps, or perhaps it is placed that way to hold balance for the world in general, the northern hemisphere, and in this discussion group tonight we intend to change the format and the function to complement and structure a new possibility to be in place, so automated practises of lip service to a cause is not in place, and hearts and minds are capable of staying open, and seeing the bigger picture. This will be our greatest gift yet that light can overcome darkness, and those who represent darkness and hold energies not wholesome will soon be seen by all as closed, but be given a chance to change their limited thinking.We offer you this gift, that you offer up your own opinions on these potentially inflammable subjects, that you discuss and broaden your own views, but also see what may be possible outcomes for the benefit of the whole.To structure this discussion group this way we ask that each individual be given the opportunity to speak on each highly explosive subject, and to broadcast their views and energies out if coming from love, this will aid the whole, and we urge you to come from higher energies.
We ask you to try to see this potential for positive change, and do not back away from giving your innermost thoughts. It’s so important that you do not hold back on your feelings, but seek to come from a clear space. The subject areas are these so you may consider these the questions to be answered. Please don’t all say I agree with so and so, so as to avoid deep thoughts and confrontation of beliefs.
1. How can the world, countries, continue to hold each other at bay, and to fill individual needs for resources, and finance internal needs alone, how can this be done without taking unfair advantage of others?
2. When one country is seen as by all as a world power and one which is ALL powerful, how does this implication come about and remain there if not by the implied and contorted reference to power as the ‘be all?
3. How can you describe a country as all-powerful, if the fundamental values of that country are flawed by greed or potential lust for what others have?
4. How does this impact upon the whole?
5. Is an all-powerful country sustainable?
6. Is the cost of this sustainment of an image worth the effort?
7. Is there a worthy world policeman?
8. Or is there a continued view of the world with one nation pulling the strings to be seen as all powerful?
9. Is there a Messianic view which underscores the nation, which considers itself the world policeman?
10. How do other nations hold a valued stand as potential allies without in some way giving away their own values to achieve the status of ally?
11. When one nation has leaders who consider themselves as beyond laws, and when the negotiable rights of individuals or nations are unvalued where does this take civilisation?
12. What value is there to life without values, and upholding all as equal?
13. Does democratic rights mean having the right to determine another countries direction and laws?
All these are part and parcel of a much greater problem now, of homage being paid to economic rationalism, and values and ethical demands held hostage, being put on hold, or on the backburner so to speak. This Summit which takes place in Australia in Sydney, carries with it a very heavy price, the humbling of nations to appease a lesser light, economic rationalism, while the good of all nations, the laws to protect human values is put at risk.Whenever economic rationalism is put into practice, something has to give, and in this case it is human rights and the value placed upon the environment, and there is no more crucial subject for discussion than this. We ask you to look at these questions and ask them of the general population.Put it on your website and bog sites.Let it be that you have faith in your own opinions.You are the shape shifters of the future, you in your formulative stages have entered into this discussion on many subjects, but by far the most important question you can ask of yourselves now is to speak out about wrongs.
14. Do I represent the mass of humanity who allow their future to be determined for them without questioning, without speaking out? Perhaps the way to protect peace is to create it with love as the key, to look at those massive problems within humanity and not say it is all to hard, to big, I can’t change any thing. For the period of time humanity is now entering is a trial by combat with ego’s, of nations egos, of individuals who see power as the greatest of gifts to achieve or take.We issue you with this warning, environmentally, socially, humanity is entering unchartered waters. The problems which are created by a world of the haves and have nots, of one nation seen as almighty is to be challenged, and the under lying reason for this challenge will be that politics have gone out the window so to speak. . . . . . . human rights, goodness & virtue seen as tradeable, for a take of the power, or to be seen at side of power.
Power is there for all equally to be shared. Power as love flows from God, and no one nation is seen as almighty, noble, and beyond rules of conduct and legitimacy. What comes to humanity is a checking system, where action brings reaction, & wrong action; those decisions which are not wholesome reap a reward, costly, sadly to many innocents along the way. We see this as a gift of love to put your views out, but try to come from love, not criticism for its own sake. We see potentials for humanity which come quickly now of your own creation, but they can be minimised by changing the status quo, where economic rationalism is king.
Balance is needed in all things, and without balance the top-heavy fall. See this please as a gentle reminder that love is the key.To share equitably with all nations is possible. To live without treading upon other nations is possible, and to avoid the future we see as developing there must be a return to the notion of the uniting of all nations, (United Nations) and if there are flaws or inadequacies in the present system, then repair them.Do not see a world where one massive power or nation is the way, it was never God’s way . . .. A gentle hand in velvet grove is always better than to breed such hatred in the hearts and minds of those seen as less.We enter a time where humanity needs direction to guide them through troubled waters, but we can only guide. It is you, individuals, who can actively change a world, and it is in a forum of discussion change comes. Look please gently at these topics for us and set your world alight, but with love, not hatred and envy, they are hard masters & require great payment.Your loving response and awareness can shift the whole. Do this with total awareness you are all part of the problem, each have at times values not honoured, words not said. How can understanding come if all is not open and upon the table, it is so with nations as well?
Blessings.Sandro Bottecelli, Leonardo Da Vinci, Isaac Newton.
We plan to change that with incorporated light being burst into the grid system, so hearts and minds are opened to the fullness of possibilities.Australia is a lucky country they say, perhaps, or perhaps it is placed that way to hold balance for the world in general, the northern hemisphere, and in this discussion group tonight we intend to change the format and the function to complement and structure a new possibility to be in place, so automated practises of lip service to a cause is not in place, and hearts and minds are capable of staying open, and seeing the bigger picture. This will be our greatest gift yet that light can overcome darkness, and those who represent darkness and hold energies not wholesome will soon be seen by all as closed, but be given a chance to change their limited thinking.We offer you this gift, that you offer up your own opinions on these potentially inflammable subjects, that you discuss and broaden your own views, but also see what may be possible outcomes for the benefit of the whole.To structure this discussion group this way we ask that each individual be given the opportunity to speak on each highly explosive subject, and to broadcast their views and energies out if coming from love, this will aid the whole, and we urge you to come from higher energies.
We ask you to try to see this potential for positive change, and do not back away from giving your innermost thoughts. It’s so important that you do not hold back on your feelings, but seek to come from a clear space. The subject areas are these so you may consider these the questions to be answered. Please don’t all say I agree with so and so, so as to avoid deep thoughts and confrontation of beliefs.
1. How can the world, countries, continue to hold each other at bay, and to fill individual needs for resources, and finance internal needs alone, how can this be done without taking unfair advantage of others?
2. When one country is seen as by all as a world power and one which is ALL powerful, how does this implication come about and remain there if not by the implied and contorted reference to power as the ‘be all?
3. How can you describe a country as all-powerful, if the fundamental values of that country are flawed by greed or potential lust for what others have?
4. How does this impact upon the whole?
5. Is an all-powerful country sustainable?
6. Is the cost of this sustainment of an image worth the effort?
7. Is there a worthy world policeman?
8. Or is there a continued view of the world with one nation pulling the strings to be seen as all powerful?
9. Is there a Messianic view which underscores the nation, which considers itself the world policeman?
10. How do other nations hold a valued stand as potential allies without in some way giving away their own values to achieve the status of ally?
11. When one nation has leaders who consider themselves as beyond laws, and when the negotiable rights of individuals or nations are unvalued where does this take civilisation?
12. What value is there to life without values, and upholding all as equal?
13. Does democratic rights mean having the right to determine another countries direction and laws?
All these are part and parcel of a much greater problem now, of homage being paid to economic rationalism, and values and ethical demands held hostage, being put on hold, or on the backburner so to speak. This Summit which takes place in Australia in Sydney, carries with it a very heavy price, the humbling of nations to appease a lesser light, economic rationalism, while the good of all nations, the laws to protect human values is put at risk.Whenever economic rationalism is put into practice, something has to give, and in this case it is human rights and the value placed upon the environment, and there is no more crucial subject for discussion than this. We ask you to look at these questions and ask them of the general population.Put it on your website and bog sites.Let it be that you have faith in your own opinions.You are the shape shifters of the future, you in your formulative stages have entered into this discussion on many subjects, but by far the most important question you can ask of yourselves now is to speak out about wrongs.
14. Do I represent the mass of humanity who allow their future to be determined for them without questioning, without speaking out? Perhaps the way to protect peace is to create it with love as the key, to look at those massive problems within humanity and not say it is all to hard, to big, I can’t change any thing. For the period of time humanity is now entering is a trial by combat with ego’s, of nations egos, of individuals who see power as the greatest of gifts to achieve or take.We issue you with this warning, environmentally, socially, humanity is entering unchartered waters. The problems which are created by a world of the haves and have nots, of one nation seen as almighty is to be challenged, and the under lying reason for this challenge will be that politics have gone out the window so to speak. . . . . . . human rights, goodness & virtue seen as tradeable, for a take of the power, or to be seen at side of power.
Power is there for all equally to be shared. Power as love flows from God, and no one nation is seen as almighty, noble, and beyond rules of conduct and legitimacy. What comes to humanity is a checking system, where action brings reaction, & wrong action; those decisions which are not wholesome reap a reward, costly, sadly to many innocents along the way. We see this as a gift of love to put your views out, but try to come from love, not criticism for its own sake. We see potentials for humanity which come quickly now of your own creation, but they can be minimised by changing the status quo, where economic rationalism is king.
Balance is needed in all things, and without balance the top-heavy fall. See this please as a gentle reminder that love is the key.To share equitably with all nations is possible. To live without treading upon other nations is possible, and to avoid the future we see as developing there must be a return to the notion of the uniting of all nations, (United Nations) and if there are flaws or inadequacies in the present system, then repair them.Do not see a world where one massive power or nation is the way, it was never God’s way . . .. A gentle hand in velvet grove is always better than to breed such hatred in the hearts and minds of those seen as less.We enter a time where humanity needs direction to guide them through troubled waters, but we can only guide. It is you, individuals, who can actively change a world, and it is in a forum of discussion change comes. Look please gently at these topics for us and set your world alight, but with love, not hatred and envy, they are hard masters & require great payment.Your loving response and awareness can shift the whole. Do this with total awareness you are all part of the problem, each have at times values not honoured, words not said. How can understanding come if all is not open and upon the table, it is so with nations as well?
Blessings.Sandro Bottecelli, Leonardo Da Vinci, Isaac Newton.
Wednesday, September 26, 2007
Friday, September 7, 2007
Thursday, September 6, 2007
APEC Summit. Endulgence of Politicians or a necessary event?
What are your opinions on the APEC Summit?
My thought are these: That the over indulgence of politicians, the enormous waste of tax payers dollars is immoral. That it would have been far better to keep politicians in Canberra, here the city is already set out for such events. It seems to me that the excesses are truly immoral, these are public servants, and yet countless innocent people are being effected, loosing money and possibly jobs, and suffering countless inconveniences so that George Bush, John Howard, and other politicians can indulge their whims and egos, having harbour cruises, BBQS and pat a Koala and other animals taken from the zoo for their inconvenience to Garden Island.
This event has shown how blown out the egos of these politicians actually are, that instead of coming to discuss important topics like the environment and equality of all nations, with a consideration for wastage of resources and manpower, there is an expectation they be treated like royalty and their every whim indulged. If there is truly an 'axis if evil', one must question whether this event as it is presented now by John Howard is coming from higher energies or simply ingratiate himself in Bushes' Shadow and coming from darker energy. To me evil is the immorality of abuse, any abuse of power and use of resources to empower the self.
My hope is that a voter backlash reminds John Howard that he is a public servant so too all politicians that are on very shaky ground, and that arrogance and self promotion do not serve the greater good.
Dragonfly
My thought are these: That the over indulgence of politicians, the enormous waste of tax payers dollars is immoral. That it would have been far better to keep politicians in Canberra, here the city is already set out for such events. It seems to me that the excesses are truly immoral, these are public servants, and yet countless innocent people are being effected, loosing money and possibly jobs, and suffering countless inconveniences so that George Bush, John Howard, and other politicians can indulge their whims and egos, having harbour cruises, BBQS and pat a Koala and other animals taken from the zoo for their inconvenience to Garden Island.
This event has shown how blown out the egos of these politicians actually are, that instead of coming to discuss important topics like the environment and equality of all nations, with a consideration for wastage of resources and manpower, there is an expectation they be treated like royalty and their every whim indulged. If there is truly an 'axis if evil', one must question whether this event as it is presented now by John Howard is coming from higher energies or simply ingratiate himself in Bushes' Shadow and coming from darker energy. To me evil is the immorality of abuse, any abuse of power and use of resources to empower the self.
My hope is that a voter backlash reminds John Howard that he is a public servant so too all politicians that are on very shaky ground, and that arrogance and self promotion do not serve the greater good.
Dragonfly
Wednesday, August 15, 2007
Leonardo da Vinci's comment about the Last Supper
Leonardo da Vinci's Statement About 'The Last Supper'.
Received 27/10/06
Now exists a concrete visual representational view of Christ in his last days. Issued by me was an edict, to please construct and paint an episodical over view of my intentions for this painting, entitled by many The Last Supper.
What was my real intention? Did I indeed have intentions other than those given as obvious evidence in pictorial form? Love is the key to this riddle, and to humanities unfoldment now into truth flowing freely, given that love is the key to Jesus Christ's life.
It is now up to each one of you to see love and not fear as the over riding element in your construction of future times.
During my days as Leonardo, problems were associated with representing truths . . . dire consequences resulted when any cross reference was made to biblical matters, and so a frustration built within me, truth, my greatest love was now driven into darkness. So dire were the consequences of speaking out, we, all those who held knowledge - knowledge gained at the expense of many lives, did need to be told now. How to speak of the unspeakable was for me foremost to my mind.
Love is the key to this painting, given the repression given to artists of my time, and even in more recent times. Creative souls could not speak of Jesus Christ without extreme oppression. Given now times are changing, it is needed lifted the veil of misinformation and distortions placed around the life of Jesus Christ. My intentions were these, pure and simple, to release truth, to conceal in a way that those enquiring minds could find and hopefully seek out their own answers. Truth is never tolerated when an existing domination out of fear exists, and shouldn't Jesus Christ have the honour of being given truth fully revealed about his life?
Much is said of my life, intentions and sexuality, much speculation, which if it were not for the importance of the subject matter would be humorous, but I take truth as my only Master. I seek out and support truth, and always have done so. Such is this time of awakening I share some of my hidden truths, so you too may awaken and be appalled at the injustice done to Jesus Christ, and to truth throughout history.
Truth will set you free they say, and it is true, but what is my truth may not be yours, but can I ask of you forbearance, listen, look and see and feel truth deep within your soul.
Jesus Christ was within this painting the main subject right? Well actually NO! The real subject matter behind this painting were my feelings of anger at the suppression of truth at the extent fear was and is used to perpetuate a lie. Jesus Christ, son and heir to the Principalities of Heaven for his great and noble life was defiled, his teachings, his feelings, his life misrepresented, to propel a story far more convenient to a church and system of belief which has long since taken on a life and power of its own, with little substance of Christ's teachings within it.
Love is the key to all of Jesus Christ's life and teachings, pure and simple. He taught love, gave love as an expression of who he was, and he was cheated in my view, his intentions were subverted, and gross violations of his teachings have taken place, so Jesus Christ was not the only principle I was painting about, near Christ to his right was what has been taught is John. A man, clearly this is not so, never has a man been so inclined in my view. I gave this figure, the figure of Mary Magdalene, the delicate features, the manner of a woman quietly disposed to listen to anger spoken against her. I gave into this painting elements or hints to show my real intent, but only glimpsed was the potential, and to a degree. So I will, Leonardo da Vinci, now remonstrate my purpose in real terms based upon knowledge gained and held sacred to me. . . life in the making. How to portray a human man of Divine origin? How to show a teacher of love without incurring the wrath of the unholy catholic church, the prominent force of the times.
My only devise was art, just as through art now through this vessel I give you now my words and vision, through her eyes . . . the hands and eyes of a woman. This is the truth I needed to speak about, the presentation of truth, yes, but of a woman. In my hearts vision of this scene, the man to Jesus Christ's right is his beloved wife Mary.
Not only his devoted and loving wife, but the one soul who was and is equal to him in every way. This scene known as the Last Supper, was really a scene of some considerable pain for both of them. . . an announcement to all of his disciples, that not only was Mary his constant companion and greatest love in human form, but she was and is his divine counterpart. His gift to her was his lineage, but to her he gave the honour and distinction of announcing this woman was God's real choice to deliver his teachings, but also hers. This is the point all seem to have missed, that God does all perfectly, and the perfect union of twin flames, those souls so blessed by God as equal were here in service.
So you see much has been speculated, but the essence of this painting was this, not only did Jesus Christ announce when he parted, his legacy in all of its power was to flow from Mary, it was the ultimate insult to the egos of men, but also a church which had built its power based upon the pyres of truth. Women so suppressed over time and still to this day were coequals, conjoined in a Holy union of minds, bodies and spirit in service to God.
How could there be such a powerful and perfect union were it not for Gods own design? I have asked this vessel to place a simple scroll upon the table to say what I could not. Christ so loved the world he gave his greatest gift, love to the world, love of a woman, love of God, and as the ultimate blessing a soul issuing forth to continue the royal and blessed lineage. Not as in the representations made, but issued at a time and place of sadness. The incredible pain both must have felt effected me deeply. So much so I gave this painting my greatest efforts along with some others to break the back of power so wrongly used.
Can you imagine Christ's pain, along with Mary's, knowing in that moment he was going and leaving his greatest love and coequal to continue with God's trust to mankind, knowing she was to carry forth a royal bloodline, but more importantly to continue truth, that all must be balanced, male- female. Love is the key to finding how this great lie created afterwards with fear as the oppressor, how fear could be used to suppress truths. Christ's teachings were also Mary's, and her own words would have completed a very depleted picture, for already in those days humanity was beginning a very unbalanced road to travel.
Mary was to be the deliverer of God's light to the masses, but what eventuated was a travesty of justice and truth. Not only was and is the Divine Feminine suppressed, God's own perfect design was altered, pulled apart and dismembered to give an unbalanced fearful ideology to build religion upon. Anything built upon false foundations, and even more so when using violence and suppression of free will must fail.
My truth was this, love was and is the key, not judgement, not suppression not an unbalanced world where the thinking of the masses of humanity has been founded on a false premise.
Truth will set you free. Within this painting I asked for an extra figure to represent the oppressive church authorities who constrained any freedom of thought . . a figure to watch over and report my every move to church authorities. The hand behind the knife belonged to the hidden threat behind Mary, that threat which followed her all the days of her life. I asked for this painting to be submitted in this form as it is given because I wished you to be shown. . truth, with all the love it was intended. Yes as my personal homage to Jesus Christ, but to my most beloved and honoured Mary Magdalene, a woman of immense power, strength, and courage so great it brought me to tears.
How could a divine woman with such a mission be so defiled, so reviled as to portray her as a prostitute to continue what was a lie.
Mary Magdaline it is to you I devoted this painting, and to the sweet knowledge gained through the lips of a woman, and to her offspring and soul offspring who continue now the story. Always has it been spoken off, prophesied that Christ would return, but truth is male energy alone is never balanced, and when Christ returned so would his Mary in another form? Always have they been devoted to serving God, and it is so now.
There are other issues spoken about with my painting, my works and secret handwriting, and how I hated Christ and his family, this couldn't be further from truth. God so loved the world he gave his son and daughter to be defiled and their words of truth scattered to the winds. NO! I, and many souls with knowledge have always worked to protect the Holy family, and to perpetuate truth. So accept please these words and listen to your own heart. It does not make sense that God created an unbalanced system- an unbalanced view of life, No, his design was perfect. This is the essence of truth. You cannot found a religion on misinformation and deliberate stripping away of truth, and have God's blessing, any more than you can create a world of peace with one aspect in power. The time for this time of injustice is over, and new energies flow God blessed, to create a new mass consciousness where all life is honoured, all people, where all religions look at the distortions which have eventuated and perpetuated through fear over the masses. Fear will have to go.
I am Leonardo, and in this my greatest of all pains I am relieved, and thankful to this vessel who so bravely saw truth as needed.
Expressions of thanks are needed by me to her, I say I offer you my vision for one more painting to come, the Mona Lisa. Love is the key.
Leonardo Da Vinci
Received 27/10/06
Now exists a concrete visual representational view of Christ in his last days. Issued by me was an edict, to please construct and paint an episodical over view of my intentions for this painting, entitled by many The Last Supper.
What was my real intention? Did I indeed have intentions other than those given as obvious evidence in pictorial form? Love is the key to this riddle, and to humanities unfoldment now into truth flowing freely, given that love is the key to Jesus Christ's life.
It is now up to each one of you to see love and not fear as the over riding element in your construction of future times.
During my days as Leonardo, problems were associated with representing truths . . . dire consequences resulted when any cross reference was made to biblical matters, and so a frustration built within me, truth, my greatest love was now driven into darkness. So dire were the consequences of speaking out, we, all those who held knowledge - knowledge gained at the expense of many lives, did need to be told now. How to speak of the unspeakable was for me foremost to my mind.
Love is the key to this painting, given the repression given to artists of my time, and even in more recent times. Creative souls could not speak of Jesus Christ without extreme oppression. Given now times are changing, it is needed lifted the veil of misinformation and distortions placed around the life of Jesus Christ. My intentions were these, pure and simple, to release truth, to conceal in a way that those enquiring minds could find and hopefully seek out their own answers. Truth is never tolerated when an existing domination out of fear exists, and shouldn't Jesus Christ have the honour of being given truth fully revealed about his life?
Much is said of my life, intentions and sexuality, much speculation, which if it were not for the importance of the subject matter would be humorous, but I take truth as my only Master. I seek out and support truth, and always have done so. Such is this time of awakening I share some of my hidden truths, so you too may awaken and be appalled at the injustice done to Jesus Christ, and to truth throughout history.
Truth will set you free they say, and it is true, but what is my truth may not be yours, but can I ask of you forbearance, listen, look and see and feel truth deep within your soul.
Jesus Christ was within this painting the main subject right? Well actually NO! The real subject matter behind this painting were my feelings of anger at the suppression of truth at the extent fear was and is used to perpetuate a lie. Jesus Christ, son and heir to the Principalities of Heaven for his great and noble life was defiled, his teachings, his feelings, his life misrepresented, to propel a story far more convenient to a church and system of belief which has long since taken on a life and power of its own, with little substance of Christ's teachings within it.
Love is the key to all of Jesus Christ's life and teachings, pure and simple. He taught love, gave love as an expression of who he was, and he was cheated in my view, his intentions were subverted, and gross violations of his teachings have taken place, so Jesus Christ was not the only principle I was painting about, near Christ to his right was what has been taught is John. A man, clearly this is not so, never has a man been so inclined in my view. I gave this figure, the figure of Mary Magdalene, the delicate features, the manner of a woman quietly disposed to listen to anger spoken against her. I gave into this painting elements or hints to show my real intent, but only glimpsed was the potential, and to a degree. So I will, Leonardo da Vinci, now remonstrate my purpose in real terms based upon knowledge gained and held sacred to me. . . life in the making. How to portray a human man of Divine origin? How to show a teacher of love without incurring the wrath of the unholy catholic church, the prominent force of the times.
My only devise was art, just as through art now through this vessel I give you now my words and vision, through her eyes . . . the hands and eyes of a woman. This is the truth I needed to speak about, the presentation of truth, yes, but of a woman. In my hearts vision of this scene, the man to Jesus Christ's right is his beloved wife Mary.
Not only his devoted and loving wife, but the one soul who was and is equal to him in every way. This scene known as the Last Supper, was really a scene of some considerable pain for both of them. . . an announcement to all of his disciples, that not only was Mary his constant companion and greatest love in human form, but she was and is his divine counterpart. His gift to her was his lineage, but to her he gave the honour and distinction of announcing this woman was God's real choice to deliver his teachings, but also hers. This is the point all seem to have missed, that God does all perfectly, and the perfect union of twin flames, those souls so blessed by God as equal were here in service.
So you see much has been speculated, but the essence of this painting was this, not only did Jesus Christ announce when he parted, his legacy in all of its power was to flow from Mary, it was the ultimate insult to the egos of men, but also a church which had built its power based upon the pyres of truth. Women so suppressed over time and still to this day were coequals, conjoined in a Holy union of minds, bodies and spirit in service to God.
How could there be such a powerful and perfect union were it not for Gods own design? I have asked this vessel to place a simple scroll upon the table to say what I could not. Christ so loved the world he gave his greatest gift, love to the world, love of a woman, love of God, and as the ultimate blessing a soul issuing forth to continue the royal and blessed lineage. Not as in the representations made, but issued at a time and place of sadness. The incredible pain both must have felt effected me deeply. So much so I gave this painting my greatest efforts along with some others to break the back of power so wrongly used.
Can you imagine Christ's pain, along with Mary's, knowing in that moment he was going and leaving his greatest love and coequal to continue with God's trust to mankind, knowing she was to carry forth a royal bloodline, but more importantly to continue truth, that all must be balanced, male- female. Love is the key to finding how this great lie created afterwards with fear as the oppressor, how fear could be used to suppress truths. Christ's teachings were also Mary's, and her own words would have completed a very depleted picture, for already in those days humanity was beginning a very unbalanced road to travel.
Mary was to be the deliverer of God's light to the masses, but what eventuated was a travesty of justice and truth. Not only was and is the Divine Feminine suppressed, God's own perfect design was altered, pulled apart and dismembered to give an unbalanced fearful ideology to build religion upon. Anything built upon false foundations, and even more so when using violence and suppression of free will must fail.
My truth was this, love was and is the key, not judgement, not suppression not an unbalanced world where the thinking of the masses of humanity has been founded on a false premise.
Truth will set you free. Within this painting I asked for an extra figure to represent the oppressive church authorities who constrained any freedom of thought . . a figure to watch over and report my every move to church authorities. The hand behind the knife belonged to the hidden threat behind Mary, that threat which followed her all the days of her life. I asked for this painting to be submitted in this form as it is given because I wished you to be shown. . truth, with all the love it was intended. Yes as my personal homage to Jesus Christ, but to my most beloved and honoured Mary Magdalene, a woman of immense power, strength, and courage so great it brought me to tears.
How could a divine woman with such a mission be so defiled, so reviled as to portray her as a prostitute to continue what was a lie.
Mary Magdaline it is to you I devoted this painting, and to the sweet knowledge gained through the lips of a woman, and to her offspring and soul offspring who continue now the story. Always has it been spoken off, prophesied that Christ would return, but truth is male energy alone is never balanced, and when Christ returned so would his Mary in another form? Always have they been devoted to serving God, and it is so now.
There are other issues spoken about with my painting, my works and secret handwriting, and how I hated Christ and his family, this couldn't be further from truth. God so loved the world he gave his son and daughter to be defiled and their words of truth scattered to the winds. NO! I, and many souls with knowledge have always worked to protect the Holy family, and to perpetuate truth. So accept please these words and listen to your own heart. It does not make sense that God created an unbalanced system- an unbalanced view of life, No, his design was perfect. This is the essence of truth. You cannot found a religion on misinformation and deliberate stripping away of truth, and have God's blessing, any more than you can create a world of peace with one aspect in power. The time for this time of injustice is over, and new energies flow God blessed, to create a new mass consciousness where all life is honoured, all people, where all religions look at the distortions which have eventuated and perpetuated through fear over the masses. Fear will have to go.
I am Leonardo, and in this my greatest of all pains I am relieved, and thankful to this vessel who so bravely saw truth as needed.
Expressions of thanks are needed by me to her, I say I offer you my vision for one more painting to come, the Mona Lisa. Love is the key.
Leonardo Da Vinci
Thursday, August 9, 2007
What is Truth
wingsforumadminJoined: 18 Oct 2006Posts: 13
Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 5:05 am Post subject: What is Truth?
The famous words of Pontius Pilate! But in two thousand years we still have not reached an answer that all can agree upon? But is that all about to change? Never before has science intersected so neatly wth spirituality! Does this mean that we will actually be able to finally understand Truth?
MB on Edge said on Sun Oct 29, 2006 9:19 am
wow, what a question! And probably one that could be debated for another 2000 years! Maybe truth is a personal thing. What is true to one person may not be true for another. But what it is?? Could it be your conscience? Your gut instinct? Or just the result of a past lesson learned? Could it be deeper than that... maybe its when you discover your soul purpose and follow it?? Could it be deeper still and the connection to God/Universal Being/All That Is? That moment when you see who you are and that everyone on this planet are ONE. And that what you do to one other person affects the entire planet, Mother Earth included. Ha ha ha just a few ideas tossed around, got serious there, didn't I ! All in Love! _________________Peace be with you
Coradcor said on Mon Oct 30, 2006 2:43 am Post subject: Universal Truth
Dear MB on Edge I agree! I think there are personal truths and then there is Universal Truth. I read a book once on Mysticism and in it the author said that the closer we are to God in our deepest experience, the more our Truth begins to intersect, regardless of what religion we may be a part of. It is only people who are separated from God in their hearts, who get caught up in the endless differences in 'truth' in religion.
Mystics for centuries, at the end of the day, have all been saying the same thing! With different words, but the same meaning. And it makes no difference what religion we are a part of. In other words, if we were to put a bunch (is that the collective noun?)of mystics from different religions in the same room, they would all come out nodding in agreement! But if we were to put a bunch of 'lawmakers' in the same room, they would most likely come out wanting to go to war with eachother! Jesus had the same problem in his lifetime: he kept coming up against the 'lawmakers' who he saw as taking away the keys to knowledge, not protecting it!
Blessings
Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 5:05 am Post subject: What is Truth?
The famous words of Pontius Pilate! But in two thousand years we still have not reached an answer that all can agree upon? But is that all about to change? Never before has science intersected so neatly wth spirituality! Does this mean that we will actually be able to finally understand Truth?
MB on Edge said on Sun Oct 29, 2006 9:19 am
wow, what a question! And probably one that could be debated for another 2000 years! Maybe truth is a personal thing. What is true to one person may not be true for another. But what it is?? Could it be your conscience? Your gut instinct? Or just the result of a past lesson learned? Could it be deeper than that... maybe its when you discover your soul purpose and follow it?? Could it be deeper still and the connection to God/Universal Being/All That Is? That moment when you see who you are and that everyone on this planet are ONE. And that what you do to one other person affects the entire planet, Mother Earth included. Ha ha ha just a few ideas tossed around, got serious there, didn't I ! All in Love! _________________Peace be with you
Coradcor said on Mon Oct 30, 2006 2:43 am Post subject: Universal Truth
Dear MB on Edge I agree! I think there are personal truths and then there is Universal Truth. I read a book once on Mysticism and in it the author said that the closer we are to God in our deepest experience, the more our Truth begins to intersect, regardless of what religion we may be a part of. It is only people who are separated from God in their hearts, who get caught up in the endless differences in 'truth' in religion.
Mystics for centuries, at the end of the day, have all been saying the same thing! With different words, but the same meaning. And it makes no difference what religion we are a part of. In other words, if we were to put a bunch (is that the collective noun?)of mystics from different religions in the same room, they would all come out nodding in agreement! But if we were to put a bunch of 'lawmakers' in the same room, they would most likely come out wanting to go to war with eachother! Jesus had the same problem in his lifetime: he kept coming up against the 'lawmakers' who he saw as taking away the keys to knowledge, not protecting it!
Blessings
What is The Sacred Feminine?
Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 3:29 am Post subject: What is the Sacred Feminine?
A discussion of the meaning of the Sacred Feminine is not necessarily a discussion about women! Nor is it just a discussion about just one woman!(i.e. Mary Magdalene). The Da Vinci Code propelled the idea forward that the Sacred Feminine is one person, Mary Magdalene and her bloodline. And although I would love to discover that Jesus was married and had children, I feel that the Sacred Feminine has much wider implications and is an Energy that is within all people, female and male, regardless of race or religion. It is an Energy that is also within all animals, plants and within the earth itself. It infuses everything and everybody.
coradcor said on Mon Oct 30, 2006 1:56 pm
Mystics through out the centuries have had their own word to describe this essential inner Force: Wisdom, Chokmah, Shekinah (Judaism) Holy Spirit, Logos (Christianity), Te (Taosim), Shakti, Prthivi, Prakrti (Indian), Nien/nen (Zen Buddhists)....and so it goes on.....It is the Feminine aspect of God, the aspect that is within everything and everybody, regardless of religion. Once we begin to become conscious of this Energy, it will change everything! Afterall, you cannot hurt, go to war against, murder, rape, destroy that which you see (and really feel and understand) as Holy. We can only destroy that which we see as being devoid of this Essence. To awaken this within is to find the Holy Grail.
MB on Edge said on Tue Oct 31, 2006 9:30 am
Today I saw the short video put together (and dedicated to Carl Sagan) from the Hubble deep field picture. I was blown away to say the least! As you watch the flight through space to what was seen on the edge of the universe, I was so full of anticipation... then, there it is. Over 10,000 galaxies from this one small area of our sky! It was like looking into the face of God.
The Feminine side of God that is so full of possibilities, promise and hidden wonders. Hidden, like knowledge and wisdom, hidden, like females through the ages. Hidden, like the modern women of some countries and hidden like the Holy Spirit is when we are so caught up in the material world that we forget to stop and smell the roses (and meditate!). It is so easy to hide yourself in this world. To deny that strength within and the intuition, to let someone else do it, for females to act useless, after all, thats what is expected. Its time to stand up, to stop denying the gut instinct and follow our inner guide. Not just women, men have gut instinct too!!! Vive la Feminine! Peace be with you
dragonfly said on Mon Nov 06, 2006 7:10 am
On hearing the words sacred feminine, the temptation might be for people to think that this relates only to women, and therefore men may shy away from entering conversations on this subject. But can I say as an explanation, that many men need to acknowledge their feminine side, and the subject, for it impacts upon them as well as any imbalance within planetary energies. If one looks at this as purely energy, and all life is energy, then all life depends upon the balance established when energies are in harmony: a balance in polarities. This not only relates to individuals, but the planet and universe at large. All energy needs the polarities to be balanced.
Let us take for example the human body. In strictly energetic terms, it is generally accepted that the right side of the body in both genders is male, + positive current, while the left side of the body is feminine, - negative current, to put this in electrical terms. So if energies of the whole planet are out of wack so to speak, unbalanced, because of the dominance of male energy from centuries of a heavily patriarchal societies and cultures, all can suffer from some form of imbalance, as is evidenced now in aggressive dominance of cultural and religious beliefs. This is being corrected by the Spiritual Hierarchy now as a raising of planetary energies, and to simply put it, pull humanity back into balance, and the subject of sacred feminine is just as important to men, as it is to females. For any imbalance anywhere effects the whole and the precious planet we call home.
Blessings
A discussion of the meaning of the Sacred Feminine is not necessarily a discussion about women! Nor is it just a discussion about just one woman!(i.e. Mary Magdalene). The Da Vinci Code propelled the idea forward that the Sacred Feminine is one person, Mary Magdalene and her bloodline. And although I would love to discover that Jesus was married and had children, I feel that the Sacred Feminine has much wider implications and is an Energy that is within all people, female and male, regardless of race or religion. It is an Energy that is also within all animals, plants and within the earth itself. It infuses everything and everybody.
coradcor said on Mon Oct 30, 2006 1:56 pm
Mystics through out the centuries have had their own word to describe this essential inner Force: Wisdom, Chokmah, Shekinah (Judaism) Holy Spirit, Logos (Christianity), Te (Taosim), Shakti, Prthivi, Prakrti (Indian), Nien/nen (Zen Buddhists)....and so it goes on.....It is the Feminine aspect of God, the aspect that is within everything and everybody, regardless of religion. Once we begin to become conscious of this Energy, it will change everything! Afterall, you cannot hurt, go to war against, murder, rape, destroy that which you see (and really feel and understand) as Holy. We can only destroy that which we see as being devoid of this Essence. To awaken this within is to find the Holy Grail.
MB on Edge said on Tue Oct 31, 2006 9:30 am
Today I saw the short video put together (and dedicated to Carl Sagan) from the Hubble deep field picture. I was blown away to say the least! As you watch the flight through space to what was seen on the edge of the universe, I was so full of anticipation... then, there it is. Over 10,000 galaxies from this one small area of our sky! It was like looking into the face of God.
The Feminine side of God that is so full of possibilities, promise and hidden wonders. Hidden, like knowledge and wisdom, hidden, like females through the ages. Hidden, like the modern women of some countries and hidden like the Holy Spirit is when we are so caught up in the material world that we forget to stop and smell the roses (and meditate!). It is so easy to hide yourself in this world. To deny that strength within and the intuition, to let someone else do it, for females to act useless, after all, thats what is expected. Its time to stand up, to stop denying the gut instinct and follow our inner guide. Not just women, men have gut instinct too!!! Vive la Feminine! Peace be with you
dragonfly said on Mon Nov 06, 2006 7:10 am
On hearing the words sacred feminine, the temptation might be for people to think that this relates only to women, and therefore men may shy away from entering conversations on this subject. But can I say as an explanation, that many men need to acknowledge their feminine side, and the subject, for it impacts upon them as well as any imbalance within planetary energies. If one looks at this as purely energy, and all life is energy, then all life depends upon the balance established when energies are in harmony: a balance in polarities. This not only relates to individuals, but the planet and universe at large. All energy needs the polarities to be balanced.
Let us take for example the human body. In strictly energetic terms, it is generally accepted that the right side of the body in both genders is male, + positive current, while the left side of the body is feminine, - negative current, to put this in electrical terms. So if energies of the whole planet are out of wack so to speak, unbalanced, because of the dominance of male energy from centuries of a heavily patriarchal societies and cultures, all can suffer from some form of imbalance, as is evidenced now in aggressive dominance of cultural and religious beliefs. This is being corrected by the Spiritual Hierarchy now as a raising of planetary energies, and to simply put it, pull humanity back into balance, and the subject of sacred feminine is just as important to men, as it is to females. For any imbalance anywhere effects the whole and the precious planet we call home.
Blessings
What Is Love?
Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 5:08 am Post subject: What Is Love?
Has Love deteriorated into a cliche? Does it even really exist? Or is it just a construction created by media and fiction to lull the masses?
MB on Edge said on Thu Nov 02, 2006 3:36 am
Love is the answer, Love is the key, all we need is Love... Love Love Love Its spoken of often, but what is it? Could it be more than that warm fuzzy feeling you get with a hug, or when you are with friends or with your chosen life partner? There are many descriptions for it, but i have never come across one that really says it for me. I think it comes with that connection to God, when you are in that moment of understanding God and that all are ONE. That moment you dont need anything else, that you dont question, when surrounded by happiness, you smile for no reason other than you feel complete. Is that all there is to it? or is there more?
The masters have given us clues, given us signposts to follow. Do they work for everyone? Do you need any specific training? According to Jesus, no we dont, all we need to do is look within. Stop worrying about not having enough material things surrounding you, you are supplied with everything you need. Allow things to come to you, but dont grab for them, dont try to control what comes. Look to the Heaven within that Jesus spoke of. If the media and movies have done anything, its to trivialise that deeper emotion, even to say its a "weak female state" to be laughed at or made fun of. Does this mean men cant feel Love? Not at all!! How silly is that! Of course they are capable of feeling all emotions, maybe the problem arises when they consider themselves above it or weakened by it, so they refuse to look at their whole selves. Thankfully there are men out there who do look, and can lead the way for others. More and more are coming to light within the world, and showing themselves! As I write this, a thunderstorm is starting, have I stirred something up, I wonder? Peace be with you
dragonflySite admin said on Mon Nov 27, 2006 12:30 am
An Insight into Christ's Love. ( Sorry for the length of this, but it had to be included in it's entirety) What is it that distinguishes us from insects or other life forms? To me the most interesting aspect of humanity is how we distinguish ourselves as human beings. What gives us the life force and energies to reach beyond the limitations of so called lower life forms to become conscious, to awaken to our divine gift, a gift of love?
Do other life forms feel love in any way like the way we feel love? To me love is the most complex of emotions, and so often I hear a description of love as experienced by people in general, and one thing becomes clear, there are so many interpretations of love, and what it means to individuals, love as distinguished from infatuation, or a self need for completion with another human being. Love to me is so much more. Love generated from the heart and soul guides me now to step forward with Creative Spirit and voice this on behalf of women. For femininity I step forward now, to explain an experience I had about a year ago.
Some would dismiss the experience as a dream, or a vision, or delusion, but what I felt was and is as real to me now as when it occurred. One morning I awoke and in that receptive state, which is often the best time to receive insights, came an experience of joy to change my life. So many times I heard the word love, and now only smile, for after my experience I know in our limited form of consciousness we don't begin to even have a glimpse of love, as it is when emanating from God.
After awakening in a peaceful state, I felt love such as I will sadly possibly not experience again in this lifetime. In this wakening state Jesus Christ fused with me, and shared with me his feelings, his thoughts, and for a brief period, it was timeless, in that I could not tell how much time went by, I experienced all of Jesus Christ's experiences. I felt His pain, his thoughts and saw through his eyes, and what I experienced showed me that we are so very limited. We do not have any knowledge of the depth of love, of his love, or that of God. Perfection isn't enough to describe love as he felt it. He loved so deeply those who were persecuting him that there were no feelings for the self. He saw and felt love before him. Every word, every injury, every wound brought only a deeper love than I can ever hope to describe. A love so pure, the only thoughts were for the oppressors, and such compassion he felt for them, sadness too, but not for himself.
He loved them so much he allowed them the lesson to be learned, knowing with time and evolution of the human race, that all of humanity would one day begin to see each other as he saw them, and take responsibility for their own actions. He saw them not as evil, no, he saw them as little children so lost, there was no way for them to experience themselves but through the pain he experienced. He gave me a great gift, to share his vision and his life, and the most painful period of his life. But this gift came with a responsibility, not because he asked it of me, but because my soul could do no less than to try to further his work, and those other great world teachers and avatars who also shared the purity of their love.
Love, if people ask me what love is, I just smile, and try desperately to recall, to hold onto the feeling of unconditional love shared with me one morning. That feeling which so easily slips away from me when confronted with the physical world. Some people would read this and just see it as nonsense. But once experienced, our potential, I could hardly live my life aware of me alone, a gift so rare cannot be wasted. Love an essence so pure it wraps you in the most divine of all energies, no human experience can touch it, compare with it, or corrupt it.
Love empowers me to strive to create a shift of consciousness for all of humanity, and in the process bring about a shift also in consciousness of the value of the feminine as one of Gods most precious gifts to humanity. What have I learned by merging with Christ? Love pure and simple, and I will continue to be his spokesperson, and carry his light forward in feminine form. Life would be so much richer for us all if I could just share with you in energetic form, the divine love of God as I have felt it.
How sad I am my words are not adequate to the task, and do not fully honour that divine gift offered, but as Lord Melchizedek explained, it was not for me alone, it had to be shared, ( Jesus Christ is an aspect of Lord Machiventa Melchizedek) The sadness I felt through his experiences, ( Jesus Christ) I feel now at times when I watch tv and see mans inhumanity to man, women and the environment. How can I just one female, invoke love in you for each other and this magnificent planet we call home? By sharing with you this website, by opening to all aspects of enlightenment energy, and being truthful, and loving you enough to make myself vulnerable and sharing my experience with Christ. It showed me Jesus Christ's love was not weak, but powerful beyond words, but his power was a gentle reminder to all people we are co-creators with God. Not some lowly creatures who need to deprive others of their truth and power. . .this is disconnection from love and so loss of power.
To love totally is to give truth's, also expressed from the heart. . .to love your enemy, for in fact you are but part of that person your criticise, wound or defile. Love is the innocence of children, hopeful, pure and trusting.
Humanity be truthful with yourselves, look at the core of you, and find judgement, envy, and lower energies, and see everyone you meet as Jesus Christ did, with respect for the Light within them, which is an extension of Gods Light, and love them, and yourself, but oppose darkness. Many people would just discount this experience as one of a dream. I could want nothing more for you than you experience love as I have.
Lord Melchizedek asked me to write this for Creative Spirit, and write about love, but from the soul. He like me knows that love is the greatest of all gifts to be shared with humanity. I share this with you, so you too may begin to see that we are offered a great gift at this time, to be all we can be, to lift humanity to new heights as we remove fear. Love is worth the risk of opening the heart.
Always will there be those who do not take our truth as theirs, but if we do not stand up and lift energies now, for the rest of our lives we may wonder, how much more love could we have shared with fellow human beings. With deep love and respect.
Dragonfly. Bright Blessings
Has Love deteriorated into a cliche? Does it even really exist? Or is it just a construction created by media and fiction to lull the masses?
MB on Edge said on Thu Nov 02, 2006 3:36 am
Love is the answer, Love is the key, all we need is Love... Love Love Love Its spoken of often, but what is it? Could it be more than that warm fuzzy feeling you get with a hug, or when you are with friends or with your chosen life partner? There are many descriptions for it, but i have never come across one that really says it for me. I think it comes with that connection to God, when you are in that moment of understanding God and that all are ONE. That moment you dont need anything else, that you dont question, when surrounded by happiness, you smile for no reason other than you feel complete. Is that all there is to it? or is there more?
The masters have given us clues, given us signposts to follow. Do they work for everyone? Do you need any specific training? According to Jesus, no we dont, all we need to do is look within. Stop worrying about not having enough material things surrounding you, you are supplied with everything you need. Allow things to come to you, but dont grab for them, dont try to control what comes. Look to the Heaven within that Jesus spoke of. If the media and movies have done anything, its to trivialise that deeper emotion, even to say its a "weak female state" to be laughed at or made fun of. Does this mean men cant feel Love? Not at all!! How silly is that! Of course they are capable of feeling all emotions, maybe the problem arises when they consider themselves above it or weakened by it, so they refuse to look at their whole selves. Thankfully there are men out there who do look, and can lead the way for others. More and more are coming to light within the world, and showing themselves! As I write this, a thunderstorm is starting, have I stirred something up, I wonder? Peace be with you
dragonflySite admin said on Mon Nov 27, 2006 12:30 am
An Insight into Christ's Love. ( Sorry for the length of this, but it had to be included in it's entirety) What is it that distinguishes us from insects or other life forms? To me the most interesting aspect of humanity is how we distinguish ourselves as human beings. What gives us the life force and energies to reach beyond the limitations of so called lower life forms to become conscious, to awaken to our divine gift, a gift of love?
Do other life forms feel love in any way like the way we feel love? To me love is the most complex of emotions, and so often I hear a description of love as experienced by people in general, and one thing becomes clear, there are so many interpretations of love, and what it means to individuals, love as distinguished from infatuation, or a self need for completion with another human being. Love to me is so much more. Love generated from the heart and soul guides me now to step forward with Creative Spirit and voice this on behalf of women. For femininity I step forward now, to explain an experience I had about a year ago.
Some would dismiss the experience as a dream, or a vision, or delusion, but what I felt was and is as real to me now as when it occurred. One morning I awoke and in that receptive state, which is often the best time to receive insights, came an experience of joy to change my life. So many times I heard the word love, and now only smile, for after my experience I know in our limited form of consciousness we don't begin to even have a glimpse of love, as it is when emanating from God.
After awakening in a peaceful state, I felt love such as I will sadly possibly not experience again in this lifetime. In this wakening state Jesus Christ fused with me, and shared with me his feelings, his thoughts, and for a brief period, it was timeless, in that I could not tell how much time went by, I experienced all of Jesus Christ's experiences. I felt His pain, his thoughts and saw through his eyes, and what I experienced showed me that we are so very limited. We do not have any knowledge of the depth of love, of his love, or that of God. Perfection isn't enough to describe love as he felt it. He loved so deeply those who were persecuting him that there were no feelings for the self. He saw and felt love before him. Every word, every injury, every wound brought only a deeper love than I can ever hope to describe. A love so pure, the only thoughts were for the oppressors, and such compassion he felt for them, sadness too, but not for himself.
He loved them so much he allowed them the lesson to be learned, knowing with time and evolution of the human race, that all of humanity would one day begin to see each other as he saw them, and take responsibility for their own actions. He saw them not as evil, no, he saw them as little children so lost, there was no way for them to experience themselves but through the pain he experienced. He gave me a great gift, to share his vision and his life, and the most painful period of his life. But this gift came with a responsibility, not because he asked it of me, but because my soul could do no less than to try to further his work, and those other great world teachers and avatars who also shared the purity of their love.
Love, if people ask me what love is, I just smile, and try desperately to recall, to hold onto the feeling of unconditional love shared with me one morning. That feeling which so easily slips away from me when confronted with the physical world. Some people would read this and just see it as nonsense. But once experienced, our potential, I could hardly live my life aware of me alone, a gift so rare cannot be wasted. Love an essence so pure it wraps you in the most divine of all energies, no human experience can touch it, compare with it, or corrupt it.
Love empowers me to strive to create a shift of consciousness for all of humanity, and in the process bring about a shift also in consciousness of the value of the feminine as one of Gods most precious gifts to humanity. What have I learned by merging with Christ? Love pure and simple, and I will continue to be his spokesperson, and carry his light forward in feminine form. Life would be so much richer for us all if I could just share with you in energetic form, the divine love of God as I have felt it.
How sad I am my words are not adequate to the task, and do not fully honour that divine gift offered, but as Lord Melchizedek explained, it was not for me alone, it had to be shared, ( Jesus Christ is an aspect of Lord Machiventa Melchizedek) The sadness I felt through his experiences, ( Jesus Christ) I feel now at times when I watch tv and see mans inhumanity to man, women and the environment. How can I just one female, invoke love in you for each other and this magnificent planet we call home? By sharing with you this website, by opening to all aspects of enlightenment energy, and being truthful, and loving you enough to make myself vulnerable and sharing my experience with Christ. It showed me Jesus Christ's love was not weak, but powerful beyond words, but his power was a gentle reminder to all people we are co-creators with God. Not some lowly creatures who need to deprive others of their truth and power. . .this is disconnection from love and so loss of power.
To love totally is to give truth's, also expressed from the heart. . .to love your enemy, for in fact you are but part of that person your criticise, wound or defile. Love is the innocence of children, hopeful, pure and trusting.
Humanity be truthful with yourselves, look at the core of you, and find judgement, envy, and lower energies, and see everyone you meet as Jesus Christ did, with respect for the Light within them, which is an extension of Gods Light, and love them, and yourself, but oppose darkness. Many people would just discount this experience as one of a dream. I could want nothing more for you than you experience love as I have.
Lord Melchizedek asked me to write this for Creative Spirit, and write about love, but from the soul. He like me knows that love is the greatest of all gifts to be shared with humanity. I share this with you, so you too may begin to see that we are offered a great gift at this time, to be all we can be, to lift humanity to new heights as we remove fear. Love is worth the risk of opening the heart.
Always will there be those who do not take our truth as theirs, but if we do not stand up and lift energies now, for the rest of our lives we may wonder, how much more love could we have shared with fellow human beings. With deep love and respect.
Dragonfly. Bright Blessings
Earth Changes
dragonflySite AdminJoined: 01 Nov 2006Posts: 32
Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 2:21 am Post subject: Earth Changes
We live in a world where changes are coming thick and fast, speeding up environmentally and energetically, and are major challengers to our comfort zones and safety. How can you help yourself and others, and contribute positive energy to aid humanity in lifting the mass consciousness past fear based thinking?
wingsforumadminJoined: 18 Oct 2006Posts: 13
Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 2:29 am Post subject:
Some time ago Lord Machiventa Melchizedek came to me and explained a part of my destiny was in service to humanity. He guided me, gave me visions of the potential future, ( one which can be changed), and he showed me, we, each one of us can influence the world we live in. The power one is a mighty thing. Look at Ghandi, Nelson Mandella, Martin Luther King Jn, Sister Theresa, they touched the lives and hearts of many millions of people. Look at those modern day movers and shakers, such as Al Gore, David Susuki, Bob Geldof, and Bono. There have been so many noble, mighty souls who have helped shape our future direction.
There have also been those who misused power like Hitler, but by and large the noble will always overpower the ignoble. Love is the key. But it isn't a powerless love, or always passive, change requires action, and we all have our part to play. Its our life and world, and we need to be active and aware about every aspect of our world, love and express joy everyday, but also speak out to help shape a new reality, if the one we are experiencing isn't all is can be. It may take time, but if enough of us through love and holding a better vision of the world pour enough energy into a dream, we can and will create a new mass consciousness. This will not only ease the wars and hatred the world is experiencing, but increase our chance of survival as the human race.
Part of this raising of mass consciousness also relates to the environment and having a sense of responsibility for our every thought, word, and deed. Living our lives as an example to other people of how to care for the environment and each other. And the power of one cannot be overlooked!
Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 2:21 am Post subject: Earth Changes
We live in a world where changes are coming thick and fast, speeding up environmentally and energetically, and are major challengers to our comfort zones and safety. How can you help yourself and others, and contribute positive energy to aid humanity in lifting the mass consciousness past fear based thinking?
wingsforumadminJoined: 18 Oct 2006Posts: 13
Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 2:29 am Post subject:
Some time ago Lord Machiventa Melchizedek came to me and explained a part of my destiny was in service to humanity. He guided me, gave me visions of the potential future, ( one which can be changed), and he showed me, we, each one of us can influence the world we live in. The power one is a mighty thing. Look at Ghandi, Nelson Mandella, Martin Luther King Jn, Sister Theresa, they touched the lives and hearts of many millions of people. Look at those modern day movers and shakers, such as Al Gore, David Susuki, Bob Geldof, and Bono. There have been so many noble, mighty souls who have helped shape our future direction.
There have also been those who misused power like Hitler, but by and large the noble will always overpower the ignoble. Love is the key. But it isn't a powerless love, or always passive, change requires action, and we all have our part to play. Its our life and world, and we need to be active and aware about every aspect of our world, love and express joy everyday, but also speak out to help shape a new reality, if the one we are experiencing isn't all is can be. It may take time, but if enough of us through love and holding a better vision of the world pour enough energy into a dream, we can and will create a new mass consciousness. This will not only ease the wars and hatred the world is experiencing, but increase our chance of survival as the human race.
Part of this raising of mass consciousness also relates to the environment and having a sense of responsibility for our every thought, word, and deed. Living our lives as an example to other people of how to care for the environment and each other. And the power of one cannot be overlooked!
The Environment
MB on EdgeJoined: 29 Oct 2006Posts: 17
Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 4:07 am Post subject: Our Environment
What is happening with our world? Are the wild weather patterns our fault? Does Mother Earth tell us she is not happy with her treatment? Is is time for us all to take responsibility for our actions instead of blaming politicians or big corporations? What could you personally do to help give this planet, our home, back its natural balance? Peace be with you
dragonflySite AdminJoined: 01 Nov 2006Posts: 32
Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 6:32 am Post subject:
In Defense Of Mother Earth. Thank you for this topic, one current and urgent for all of humanity. It is my opinion that not only should we take responsibility immediatley for our own personal share of inconsiderate abuse of the environment, but it is also by implication our fault as I see it, if by our complacancy we also allow politicians to decree a dark future for our children, and children's children, and all life on earth.
We are all responsible for global warming, but we can change this for the better. We are powerful beings when united for a cause. I am annoyed, and at times embarrased to be an Australian, when our political representives lack insight, not farsighted enough in their vision to see decisions, hard ones, need to be made yesterday to save the planet! What we need in our policy makers are powerful, wise, politicians, who see beyond economic rationalism as the only governing force. Not to cling onto fossil fuel or uranium as the only alternatives, but see beyond, and choose clean green alternatives no matter what the initial cost. Perhaps the latest statistics on GLOBAL WARMING IS A REMINDER TO US ALL what is at stake, and that personal agendas should be overlooked, such as votes at the next election, in favour of a compassionate all embracing stance on the environment. Far sighted decisions need to be made now, and upheld for the good of the planet.
I am personally sorry Al Gore can't represent us in Australia, his far sightedness, wisdom and courage has to date been sadly lacking in Australian Politics in my opinion. There are men and women of great integrity who are farsighted in Australian politics, but they are not in positions now to make immediate changes, and this saddens me.
What the world needs in my eyes, are leaders of the calibre of Al Gore, who put all they have into their truth, no matter what the personal cost. I am sure there are, just needing public support to come to the fore. It just might be the public is not only looking, but desperate for just such potential leaders to show themselves, possibly then I would feel more optimistic for our planet. We HAVE the power to change the world for the better. Sometimes we just need to open our eyes and see the blessings we have, but take for granted, to see the threats and be motivated to move as one in Mother Earths defense.
coradcorJoined: 29 Oct 2006Posts: 36
Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 9:28 pm Post subject: Is the current rain tears from heaven?
I went out west recently and witnessed a fatal accident with a young girl in her early twenties dying. It happened directly behind our vehicle. It was strange. There were many rescue workers there that had been obviously trained to make priorities..i.e. the living first and the ones that are without hope of living have less of a priority. Its practical. But my friend and i strangely enough were drawn straight to the girl and felt compelled to help her, to bless her, to pray for her. My friend held her head as she died. Later on i received a text message from another friend who always psychically seems to be aware of what is happening... and she told me that a great wave of compassion had suddenly hit the world from God. And it was making her feel like crying. She was not aware at this stage of the accident. It was interesting because at the crash site i kept feeling all these waves of compassion (for her, for her mother, for her family) which also made me cry. And then it began raining not long after!! Out West where there is a drought there has hardly been any rain for a long time. And the rain has spread out over the state and continued all the way home the next day. I really felt like the rain was the 'tears of compassion' from God. It felt very clear. Does our state of mind effect the weather as much as governments? If we were to be overwhelmed by compassion for either our fellow man, the earth itself, or one single person who is in pain, would this break the drought? Blessings
MichaelJoined: 30 Nov 2006Posts: 14Location: Grafton
Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 11:08 am Post subject:
The Biosphere of Planet Earth, otherwise known as Gaia acts as a superorganism which used negative and sometimes positive feedback loops to maintain conditions suitable for life to persist on the planet. The control mechanisms have detected "a major disturbance in the force" created by humans and are now moving to correct this disturbance.
We - the human race are about to "corrected" in a big way, for our actions are making it difficult for just about every other life form on the planet to survive. Gaia - Mother Nature (karma) or whatever name you wish to use for the process has a number of tools to correct the disturbance we are creating. 1. Using feedback loops, the climate changes we make will bring about changes in our ability to feed ourselves - we will die in large numbers and restore balance to the system. Any organism which breeds beyond the carrying capacity of its environment pays the penalty in a population crash.
We have been able to temporarily cheat this outcome to date by use of fertilisers, pesticides, herbicides, and massive inputs of energy. However we are rapidly running out of aces up our sleeves for this one. And because of the cheating, the population has had time to grow much larger, and the correction will be proportionate. 2. The disturbed environment we have produced will create conditions suitable for those vectors which will act to reduce our numbers eg. mosquitos (malaria, ross river virus, nile river virus, murray valley encephalitis, etc) rapid development of new or returned diseases and miroorganism (aids, turberculosis, plague, pox, etc, etc). 3. Competition for ever dwindling resources due to human overpopulation will lead to wars - result reduction in population of the disturbing force. 4. Mass destruction of the environment and large scale extinction of species will remove most of our support system which keeps us alive and healthy (physically, mentally and spiritually) - end result population control and removal/reduction of disturbing force, restoring balance (in geological not human time scales). Soils take thousands of years to develop, if we repent of their destruction too late, bad luck human race - no food.
Therefore to use biblical terms, we are about to reap what we have sown. In time (large amounts of time), balance will be restored to the earth. New species will have evolved to fill the niches created by the destruction caused by humans, but we - the human race will not be around to see the new earth that restores itself to health in 10 or 20 million years. Mother Earth, or Gaia, or whatever consciousness the Planet has, will regard us as a failed experiment, not to be repeated.
Michael
Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 4:07 am Post subject: Our Environment
What is happening with our world? Are the wild weather patterns our fault? Does Mother Earth tell us she is not happy with her treatment? Is is time for us all to take responsibility for our actions instead of blaming politicians or big corporations? What could you personally do to help give this planet, our home, back its natural balance? Peace be with you
dragonflySite AdminJoined: 01 Nov 2006Posts: 32
Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 6:32 am Post subject:
In Defense Of Mother Earth. Thank you for this topic, one current and urgent for all of humanity. It is my opinion that not only should we take responsibility immediatley for our own personal share of inconsiderate abuse of the environment, but it is also by implication our fault as I see it, if by our complacancy we also allow politicians to decree a dark future for our children, and children's children, and all life on earth.
We are all responsible for global warming, but we can change this for the better. We are powerful beings when united for a cause. I am annoyed, and at times embarrased to be an Australian, when our political representives lack insight, not farsighted enough in their vision to see decisions, hard ones, need to be made yesterday to save the planet! What we need in our policy makers are powerful, wise, politicians, who see beyond economic rationalism as the only governing force. Not to cling onto fossil fuel or uranium as the only alternatives, but see beyond, and choose clean green alternatives no matter what the initial cost. Perhaps the latest statistics on GLOBAL WARMING IS A REMINDER TO US ALL what is at stake, and that personal agendas should be overlooked, such as votes at the next election, in favour of a compassionate all embracing stance on the environment. Far sighted decisions need to be made now, and upheld for the good of the planet.
I am personally sorry Al Gore can't represent us in Australia, his far sightedness, wisdom and courage has to date been sadly lacking in Australian Politics in my opinion. There are men and women of great integrity who are farsighted in Australian politics, but they are not in positions now to make immediate changes, and this saddens me.
What the world needs in my eyes, are leaders of the calibre of Al Gore, who put all they have into their truth, no matter what the personal cost. I am sure there are, just needing public support to come to the fore. It just might be the public is not only looking, but desperate for just such potential leaders to show themselves, possibly then I would feel more optimistic for our planet. We HAVE the power to change the world for the better. Sometimes we just need to open our eyes and see the blessings we have, but take for granted, to see the threats and be motivated to move as one in Mother Earths defense.
coradcorJoined: 29 Oct 2006Posts: 36
Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 9:28 pm Post subject: Is the current rain tears from heaven?
I went out west recently and witnessed a fatal accident with a young girl in her early twenties dying. It happened directly behind our vehicle. It was strange. There were many rescue workers there that had been obviously trained to make priorities..i.e. the living first and the ones that are without hope of living have less of a priority. Its practical. But my friend and i strangely enough were drawn straight to the girl and felt compelled to help her, to bless her, to pray for her. My friend held her head as she died. Later on i received a text message from another friend who always psychically seems to be aware of what is happening... and she told me that a great wave of compassion had suddenly hit the world from God. And it was making her feel like crying. She was not aware at this stage of the accident. It was interesting because at the crash site i kept feeling all these waves of compassion (for her, for her mother, for her family) which also made me cry. And then it began raining not long after!! Out West where there is a drought there has hardly been any rain for a long time. And the rain has spread out over the state and continued all the way home the next day. I really felt like the rain was the 'tears of compassion' from God. It felt very clear. Does our state of mind effect the weather as much as governments? If we were to be overwhelmed by compassion for either our fellow man, the earth itself, or one single person who is in pain, would this break the drought? Blessings
MichaelJoined: 30 Nov 2006Posts: 14Location: Grafton
Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 11:08 am Post subject:
The Biosphere of Planet Earth, otherwise known as Gaia acts as a superorganism which used negative and sometimes positive feedback loops to maintain conditions suitable for life to persist on the planet. The control mechanisms have detected "a major disturbance in the force" created by humans and are now moving to correct this disturbance.
We - the human race are about to "corrected" in a big way, for our actions are making it difficult for just about every other life form on the planet to survive. Gaia - Mother Nature (karma) or whatever name you wish to use for the process has a number of tools to correct the disturbance we are creating. 1. Using feedback loops, the climate changes we make will bring about changes in our ability to feed ourselves - we will die in large numbers and restore balance to the system. Any organism which breeds beyond the carrying capacity of its environment pays the penalty in a population crash.
We have been able to temporarily cheat this outcome to date by use of fertilisers, pesticides, herbicides, and massive inputs of energy. However we are rapidly running out of aces up our sleeves for this one. And because of the cheating, the population has had time to grow much larger, and the correction will be proportionate. 2. The disturbed environment we have produced will create conditions suitable for those vectors which will act to reduce our numbers eg. mosquitos (malaria, ross river virus, nile river virus, murray valley encephalitis, etc) rapid development of new or returned diseases and miroorganism (aids, turberculosis, plague, pox, etc, etc). 3. Competition for ever dwindling resources due to human overpopulation will lead to wars - result reduction in population of the disturbing force. 4. Mass destruction of the environment and large scale extinction of species will remove most of our support system which keeps us alive and healthy (physically, mentally and spiritually) - end result population control and removal/reduction of disturbing force, restoring balance (in geological not human time scales). Soils take thousands of years to develop, if we repent of their destruction too late, bad luck human race - no food.
Therefore to use biblical terms, we are about to reap what we have sown. In time (large amounts of time), balance will be restored to the earth. New species will have evolved to fill the niches created by the destruction caused by humans, but we - the human race will not be around to see the new earth that restores itself to health in 10 or 20 million years. Mother Earth, or Gaia, or whatever consciousness the Planet has, will regard us as a failed experiment, not to be repeated.
Michael
What Do You Want?
coradcorJoined: 29 Oct 2006Posts: 36
Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 5:32 am Post subject: What do you want?
These are the first words of Jesus in the Gospel of John! What would be YOUR answer? Jesus tells us that part of the key to our spirituality is to "Love the Lord your God with your whole heart, mind and soul." (the other part being to love your neighbour as yourself). Is it possible to love God with our WHOLE heart, mind and soul.....as well as love (or want) the things of this world? Or, when we love the things of this world does this divide our hearts, diluting our awarness of God from within? Is this why Jesus told us that we cannot serve both God and money?
MB on EdgeJoined: 29 Oct 2006Posts: 17
Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 5:05 am Post subject: What I want!!
Another juicy question!! What do I want... ? I have a home, I dont need a bigger house. I have a car, I dont need a flashier model. I have enough money to pay the bills this month. I have food, clothing, all the basics and a few more! These things do not define who I am. I have freedom, to be myself, to express myself, to go where I want. I have my health. I can make choices. A have a lot more than half the world's poplulation and I'm not looking for more. My needs are covered. What do I want... ? I want the truth. I want all people given the opportunities I have, opportunities to learn, grow and think for themselves. I want all people to have freedom, but never at the expense of others. I want all people to have enough for the necessities of life. I want a world of peace, a healthy world with healthy happy people. I want ... But if Jesus stood before me and asked, "what do you want?" All I could say is ....Peace be with you
dragonflySite AdminJoined: 01 Nov 2006Posts: 32
Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 10:01 am Post subject:
What I want most is truth to be available to everyone. For fear to be sent packing, and femininity seen as a divine gift, for this is what it truly is. It is indeed my dearest wish that the Sacred Feminine will finally regain her voice.. . . to be able to speak and know her words will be respected and given a place of honour in the hearts of those who receive her words. Too long has the feminine been seen as a supporting role only, with such comments as girls should be seen and not heard. How many women and girls are subjected to ridicule, or treated badly, abused, disfigured or disadvantaged because of male dominance and insecurity.
I have no such dramatic needs for the material aspects of life, yes I would like from the universe relative comfort, to allow my family to live without worry about where their next meal or the rent will be paid. But I have no greed for me alone, but a deep and sincere prayer of mine is that all people have the opportunity to live without fear and poverty. Poverty is cruel, but I have seen people in countries where they were homeless, without a chance of a wife or girlfriend or home and food, and yet in the eyes of so many, I saw and felt only a deep spiritual reverence, something so very lacking in our modern society in Western Countries who do not think other than of the self, and their next want being filled.
Money doesn't buy you love. But LOVE and compassion can fill the soul and ease the ache so many people experience, even with the 15th rental property and stocks under their belt. Nothing fills the soul like the realisation we have a purpose, our lives can be magic when we are connected, truly connected to God. My wish list is perhaps different to other peoples, and I respect everyones right to free will and to choose their direction, but would wish for a less insular society, one separated from a sense of connection to each other, or God. . where people pass on the street and look at those who smile at them and look away.
My wish list is this.
* That everyone awakens, softens and listens to each other from the heart.
* That all females are accorded the respect they deserve
* That compassion replaces greed.
* That women reach out to aid an imbalanced world, and are honoured for their efforts.
* That men see that they are balanced when they allow the softer side of their natures to show. * That all nations are seen as equal, all people, and aggression is a thing of the past.
* What I want is for all people to see themselves as co-creators, and honour each other as divine beings. There is great strength in gentleness, and love, and all need it. This continues to be what I wish for.
MichaelJoined: 30 Nov 2006Posts: 14Location: Grafton
Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:35 pm Post subject:
I want Spaceship Earth with its beautiful scenery, and its cargo of life forms that has taken billions of years to evolve to its present state still be around for billions more years, and not be destroyed by the activities of one out of control species in the space of 2 thousand years - the blink of an eye Geologically speaking. The Earth is our home and our life support system. Without it all other wishes and wants fade into insignificance and irrelevance. The Sun is the source of life on Earth, its activities have made life on Earth possible. When the Sun reaches old age and dies that is the appropriate time for life cycles to cease on this planet also. Therefore, I suppose I also want the human race to grow up, and stop acting like spoiled brats and irresponsible children.
Michael
coradcorJoined: 29 Oct 2006Posts: 36
Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 1:10 am Post subject: HOPE
Dear Michael ... as long as there are people like you who care so passionately about 'Spaceship Earth' I cannot feel anything other than optimistic..........
Thankyou. coradcor
Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 5:32 am Post subject: What do you want?
These are the first words of Jesus in the Gospel of John! What would be YOUR answer? Jesus tells us that part of the key to our spirituality is to "Love the Lord your God with your whole heart, mind and soul." (the other part being to love your neighbour as yourself). Is it possible to love God with our WHOLE heart, mind and soul.....as well as love (or want) the things of this world? Or, when we love the things of this world does this divide our hearts, diluting our awarness of God from within? Is this why Jesus told us that we cannot serve both God and money?
MB on EdgeJoined: 29 Oct 2006Posts: 17
Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 5:05 am Post subject: What I want!!
Another juicy question!! What do I want... ? I have a home, I dont need a bigger house. I have a car, I dont need a flashier model. I have enough money to pay the bills this month. I have food, clothing, all the basics and a few more! These things do not define who I am. I have freedom, to be myself, to express myself, to go where I want. I have my health. I can make choices. A have a lot more than half the world's poplulation and I'm not looking for more. My needs are covered. What do I want... ? I want the truth. I want all people given the opportunities I have, opportunities to learn, grow and think for themselves. I want all people to have freedom, but never at the expense of others. I want all people to have enough for the necessities of life. I want a world of peace, a healthy world with healthy happy people. I want ... But if Jesus stood before me and asked, "what do you want?" All I could say is ....Peace be with you
dragonflySite AdminJoined: 01 Nov 2006Posts: 32
Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 10:01 am Post subject:
What I want most is truth to be available to everyone. For fear to be sent packing, and femininity seen as a divine gift, for this is what it truly is. It is indeed my dearest wish that the Sacred Feminine will finally regain her voice.. . . to be able to speak and know her words will be respected and given a place of honour in the hearts of those who receive her words. Too long has the feminine been seen as a supporting role only, with such comments as girls should be seen and not heard. How many women and girls are subjected to ridicule, or treated badly, abused, disfigured or disadvantaged because of male dominance and insecurity.
I have no such dramatic needs for the material aspects of life, yes I would like from the universe relative comfort, to allow my family to live without worry about where their next meal or the rent will be paid. But I have no greed for me alone, but a deep and sincere prayer of mine is that all people have the opportunity to live without fear and poverty. Poverty is cruel, but I have seen people in countries where they were homeless, without a chance of a wife or girlfriend or home and food, and yet in the eyes of so many, I saw and felt only a deep spiritual reverence, something so very lacking in our modern society in Western Countries who do not think other than of the self, and their next want being filled.
Money doesn't buy you love. But LOVE and compassion can fill the soul and ease the ache so many people experience, even with the 15th rental property and stocks under their belt. Nothing fills the soul like the realisation we have a purpose, our lives can be magic when we are connected, truly connected to God. My wish list is perhaps different to other peoples, and I respect everyones right to free will and to choose their direction, but would wish for a less insular society, one separated from a sense of connection to each other, or God. . where people pass on the street and look at those who smile at them and look away.
My wish list is this.
* That everyone awakens, softens and listens to each other from the heart.
* That all females are accorded the respect they deserve
* That compassion replaces greed.
* That women reach out to aid an imbalanced world, and are honoured for their efforts.
* That men see that they are balanced when they allow the softer side of their natures to show. * That all nations are seen as equal, all people, and aggression is a thing of the past.
* What I want is for all people to see themselves as co-creators, and honour each other as divine beings. There is great strength in gentleness, and love, and all need it. This continues to be what I wish for.
MichaelJoined: 30 Nov 2006Posts: 14Location: Grafton
Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:35 pm Post subject:
I want Spaceship Earth with its beautiful scenery, and its cargo of life forms that has taken billions of years to evolve to its present state still be around for billions more years, and not be destroyed by the activities of one out of control species in the space of 2 thousand years - the blink of an eye Geologically speaking. The Earth is our home and our life support system. Without it all other wishes and wants fade into insignificance and irrelevance. The Sun is the source of life on Earth, its activities have made life on Earth possible. When the Sun reaches old age and dies that is the appropriate time for life cycles to cease on this planet also. Therefore, I suppose I also want the human race to grow up, and stop acting like spoiled brats and irresponsible children.
Michael
coradcorJoined: 29 Oct 2006Posts: 36
Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 1:10 am Post subject: HOPE
Dear Michael ... as long as there are people like you who care so passionately about 'Spaceship Earth' I cannot feel anything other than optimistic..........
Thankyou. coradcor
What is Your Favourite Book?
MB on EdgeJoined: 29 Oct 2006Posts: 17
Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 5:09 am Post subject: What is your favourite book?
What is the book you would like the world to read? Which one struck a chord in your heart? Did it change your life? Your thinking?_________________Peace be with you
FruitloopJoined: 31 Oct 2006Posts: 3
Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 3:18 am Post subject:
Hmmm, There are many books that I have read that have struck a chord, that I would like the world to read. Even those that I have read, and have not resonated with me, or ring true, actually still bring me closer to knowing and understanding my own truths, beliefs and knowings. All have been valuable! Instead I have chosen to list two books here, that I read my self years before, but they seem to be making a resurgence, judging from the different people who are asking me if I have read them latley. 1) The Celestine Prophecy. I read this book perhaps 10 or more years ago. One of the things I liked about it was that it was written in a story format. Yet was able to prompt inner movement from within.
I have over the years spoken to many people who have read the book and I am amazed at the varied responses and emotions that this book has provoked. I have found that after reading this book most of these people have then continued their own journey or quest (similar to the character in the book) in broadeneing their views, beliefs ect. Can be nothing but good for the mass consciousness! 2) Conversations With God. This is a book that has sat on my shelf for a while. My Younger brother who is living with me, picked it up and started reading it. Almost every phone call to his friends now includes a recommendation to read this book. I have known these boys a while and the title alone I would have thought would have been enough to make them shut off! Yet any who have purcheased the book are now in back and forward phone calls to my brother with things like " What did you think about this part?" "Wow, what about where he says in chapter 6......" or "I can't believe it, this book has changed my life!!"etc. From what I can see some people seem to be able to relate to this better than most.I am not quite sure what that reason is but, hey.... anything that makes a positive connection on any level has got to be good.
Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 5:09 am Post subject: What is your favourite book?
What is the book you would like the world to read? Which one struck a chord in your heart? Did it change your life? Your thinking?_________________Peace be with you
FruitloopJoined: 31 Oct 2006Posts: 3
Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 3:18 am Post subject:
Hmmm, There are many books that I have read that have struck a chord, that I would like the world to read. Even those that I have read, and have not resonated with me, or ring true, actually still bring me closer to knowing and understanding my own truths, beliefs and knowings. All have been valuable! Instead I have chosen to list two books here, that I read my self years before, but they seem to be making a resurgence, judging from the different people who are asking me if I have read them latley. 1) The Celestine Prophecy. I read this book perhaps 10 or more years ago. One of the things I liked about it was that it was written in a story format. Yet was able to prompt inner movement from within.
I have over the years spoken to many people who have read the book and I am amazed at the varied responses and emotions that this book has provoked. I have found that after reading this book most of these people have then continued their own journey or quest (similar to the character in the book) in broadeneing their views, beliefs ect. Can be nothing but good for the mass consciousness! 2) Conversations With God. This is a book that has sat on my shelf for a while. My Younger brother who is living with me, picked it up and started reading it. Almost every phone call to his friends now includes a recommendation to read this book. I have known these boys a while and the title alone I would have thought would have been enough to make them shut off! Yet any who have purcheased the book are now in back and forward phone calls to my brother with things like " What did you think about this part?" "Wow, what about where he says in chapter 6......" or "I can't believe it, this book has changed my life!!"etc. From what I can see some people seem to be able to relate to this better than most.I am not quite sure what that reason is but, hey.... anything that makes a positive connection on any level has got to be good.
Fundamentalism
dragonflySite AdminJoined: 01 Nov 2006Posts: 32
Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 2:32 am Post subject: Fundamentalism
Should spirituality have any part to play in politics? With growing fundamentalism beginning to exert powerful influences on political policy making world wide. What danger do you see with religious fundamentalism and its impact upon our planet and leaders of governments?
Michael Joined: 30 Nov 2006Posts: 14Location: Grafton
Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 12:20 pm Post subject:
Fundamentalists - religious, political or economic are the bane of mankind and the enemy of truth. Religious fundamentalist of all religions have always been control freaks who do not like truth. Religious fundamentalists thrive on fear and ignorance. In fact you could say that fear and ignorance are what they are peddling. Free thinkers have always been persecuted by fundamentalists.
The "dark ages" were the time when religion held sway over humanity. The peasants lived in fear and were controlled by superstition, "tradition", and the church. It was only with the coming of the renaissance and removal of restrictions placed by churches on free thinking that science was able to redevelop from its original Greek, Egyptian and Middle Eastern roots. Any improvements in the human condition in the last 5 hundred years have come from research and investigation and logic replacing religious dogma. Luckily no one is burnt at the stake anymore for saying that the earth revolves around the sun and that the earth is not the centre of the universe. Science has revealed the the Universe is a beautiful and wondrous place, and given us some insights into how it works. However there is a need to remain eternally vigilant against religious nutters.
The latest form of creationist nonsense is called laughingly "intelligent design". If we are not careful these throwbacks would soon try to stop teaching science and return to superstitious mumbo jumbo. Now we have to deal with right wing and left wing political fundamentalists and "economic rationalists" - economic fundamentalists as well. The right wing political fundamentalists use fear tactics to gain and maintain control. They use fears of "terrorists" to get people to voluntarily give up freedoms that were hard won so that they can be "protected" from any nasties out there. Remember "the boat people invasion", "children overboard", and "weapons of mass destruction" of a certain political coalition to get people to vote for them, and look at what has come from it. Working Conditions have been eroded, freedom of speech restricted. Australia has marched back down the time tunnel 50 years at least. They want us to all have to carry an ID card so that all of our movements/ purchases etc can be recorded and tracked. Left wing political fundamentalist (communists, stalinists, maoists) have always functioned on total control of their populations and their freedoms of free speech, thought action and travel. They deny freedom of speech, control all media and use threats and intimidation to control their population. Look at the plight of the peasants in North Korea, or what the Communist Chinese have done in Tibet since they invaded it. Finally, we have economic "rationalists" (Economic fundamentalists) to deal with. Remember the "level playing field", the J curve, and the "global economy", G7, G10, GATT, etc. All that has resulted from this is an export of our jobs to the country that pays the lowest wages while the executives of these "global companies" pay themselves fat salaries and bonuses for sacking staff, cutting services, hiking fees and charges and reducing services. All of the above indicated flow from "fundamentalists" of one type or another. Hence they are the bane of humanity - its worst enemy and the greatest hindrance to improvement of the human condition. Michael
coradcorJoined: 29 Oct 2006Posts: 36
Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 9:59 pm Post subject: fundamentalism
Hi Michael.. love your postings... But is there such a thing a scientific fundamentalism as well? You mention political, economic and religious, all of which i agree with, but i also feel there is scientific fundamentalism. At the moment we live in a paradigm of reality that insists that there is an objective world out there that can be observed, dissected, commented upon by us.....and that in doing so we have no impact upon it....we do not effect it. I feel like this way of viewing our reality has been grounded into our very perception of life and was influenced by the scientific methods of the last 500years in particular. Or, in other words, if we get angry, upset with unfair/destructive aspects of this reality, is our reaction contributing to that reality....or does it make no difference what soever? Interestingly enough it is science that is slowly but surely dispelling this illusion..with quantum physics and movies such as What the Bleep? (have you seen it?)
Fundamentalist scientists do not burn people at the stake who disagree..but they certainly can still ridicule, isolate and discredit anyone who disagrees with their 'truth'. I think fundamentalism is an aspect of ego human nature and has the potential to worm its way into all aspects of our existence, even in the way in which we 'fight' fundamentalism. The best way to dispel fundamentalism is by ensuring that we do not think like that from within. Because quantum physics is now insisting that consciousness effects our reality (something that spiritual people have know for a long while..) then the way in which we approach this will be all important. Otherwise we will only replace one form of fundamentalism with another...
MichaelJoined: 30 Nov 2006Posts: 14Location: Grafton
Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:13 pm Post subject:
Hello Coradcor. I am pleased you like my postings. Just a couple of comments. If you have studied any quantum mechanics you may have heard of the Heisenberg Uncertainty principle. This principle states that just by observing something (taking some measurement using light waves because of the atomic scales we need to measure) we actually interfere with the item we are studying. To be exact, you cannot know the position and the momentum of a particle at the same time, because the very act of measuring one changes the other.
Have you heard of the idea that nothing happens without an observer? This one is a bit like the statement that "if a tree falls in the forest and no one hears/sees it, did it fall? The other interesting idea to come from theoretical physics is the idea of an infinite number of parallel universes where every possible outcome (even theoretical ones) exists. Every decision/choice you make creates an additional universe with a new set of possibilities resulting from the choices you make. The problem with scientists (and anyone else) who spends a lot of time and money studying something is that they then have a "patch to defend". This is especially true when they have personally developed or supported some particular theory. Then when a new better theory comes along they are resistant to dropping all they have based their reputation on and adopting the new better theory.
Unfortunately some scientists have this flaw. Whether you would call it resistance to change, blinkered vision, or personal prejudices does not matter. I would pull back slightly from calling it scientific fundamentalism, and call it human weakness. I am one of those who has had some scientific training, but I still believe that there is more "out there" than we can see and feel, and science has yet discovered. What I am particularly worried about is when religious fundamentalist thinkers try to impose their dogma on research. Creationism is a classic example of this. Creationists will totally ignore a mountain of research from a range of disciplines which independently prove that something is a fact and say "it is not in the bible so it cannot be true". They will ignore fossils of ancient sea creatures or dinosaurs found in rocks on the tops of mountains and say it was a result of Noahs flood. However if you asked them why this creature was not saved by Noah (ie one of the passengers in his ark), as all of the creatures were supposed to have been saved (2 by 2, 7 by 7) they would ignore the question and the evidence like they did not even exist. This type are also partial to changing the results of any experiments when the result did not coincide with their religious belief.
Religious fundamentalists initiated a prosecution in the US in the 20's or 30's against a school teacher for teaching Darwin's theory of Evolution. It made America a laughing stock around the world at the time. Spencer Tracy made a very good movie about it a long time ago (worth watching). Now there is a hardly a real scientist is the world who does not believe in the theory of evolution (except the few who come from Religious Universities in the US with bogus science degrees). To qualify with an Honours degree in science from one of these "Universities" all you have to do is quote the bible in all of your work and you will pass with flying colours.
Michael
coradcorJoined: 29 Oct 2006Posts: 36
Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 10:14 pm Post subject: reply
Hi Michael, Thanks for your reply!!! I have not had any formal scientific training and so it is actually good to have someone who has training involved in the forum (so i can pick your brain at times.... ) but the 'essence' of quantum findings is what i find absolutely amazing....the idea that something that is INTANGIBLE (consciousness, mind..) effecting something that is TANGIBLE/PHYSICAL.. is simply not possible in a purely mechanical universe......it disturbs the very foundation of our current paradigm/reality.
We are used to seeing the mind as a side effect (epiphenomena) of the brain....not the other way around. The idea that consciousness is primary is revolutionary to our current way of living. Don't get me wrong: If i had to throw my lot in with either the religious fundamentalists or the scientific 'fundamentalists' ... i would be choosing the scientists any day....i guess i have had though experiences (while at uni) of trying to broach the subject ( of a greater reality) with various professors and was met with a constant wall of patronising ridicule or rock solid 'you are wrong'.
It annoys me now because i did not realize at the time that all this quantum stuff had been around for many decades already, and so their reaction was hardly displaying the type of 'openness' that one would expect of a truly objective mind. It was never a matter of expecting them to agree....but simply be objective enough to admit that there are other possibilities... based on science. I was young and impressionable at the time and found myself immediately thinking that they must be the right ones. This is truly terrible! And i feel it is a subtle form of forcing one's views onto others. They may not have have openly ignored 'logic'...but it was still present. And it certainly effected my life in a negative way for many years. I had not really experienced the Church growing up....so was spared their 'fundamentalism'.... (other than one Priest who was actually an amazing person....)...and so my first encounter with 'fundamentalism' was actually in the realm of Academia....ironic really!
MichaelJoined: 30 Nov 2006Posts: 14Location: Grafton
Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 2:02 pm Post subject:
Hello again coradcor. I know what you mean. I once broached the idea of plants having some sort of consciousness with a University Lecturer - whether they might have some sort of undiscovered nervous system (this question was prompted by the story (true or false unknown) of electrically monitoring plants and then the researcher ripping up and killing one of the plants. Supposedly when this person came back into the room the electrical signals put out by the other plants went off scale like they recognised him. Plus other plant behaviours like knowing when to flower, when to drop their leaves for winter, amazing plant strategies like mimicking the appearance of a female wasp in their flowers so that the male wasp will try to mate with it and get covered in pollen in the process which is then transferred to another flower of the species.
How could a plant "know" what a female wasp looks like. This is extremely unlikely to have occured as a genetic accident (mutation) as there are too many genes involved. She poo pooed the idea of plant consciousness as unscientific. Another lecturer came into the lecture theatre one day an said continental drift was a load of hoey. A few weeks later he came back with his tail between his legs and said things had changed - the latest research from multiple disciplines had proven it almost beyond doubt - plus discovering the mechanism by which it occurred (plate tectonics).
Science does not know all of the answers, and some scientists are rigid in their thinking (blinkered) and resistant to change. However science has given us tools to improve our understanding of the universe, which otherwise we could only speculate about. PS the implications of quantum mechanics, theoretical physics and cosmology are truly mind blowing. Things can be in two places at the same time, black holes "evaporate", etc. MichaelLast edited by Michael
coradcorJoined: 29 Oct 2006Posts: 36
Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 6:27 am Post subject: strange...
Dear Michael, I had to laugh when i read your posting....the similarity in experience is just more than a little spooky! I, too, approached a lecturer (in Philosophy) about plants (but mine was in relation to their reaction, either positive or negative, to music)... and was totally dismissed in a patronising way. I also had a lecturer come in one day (Pyschology) and announce that anyone who believes in anything other than the material world was wrong and had serious problems! I remember stopping for a moment (in absolute horror) and looking around the packed theatre and thinking to myself, "Why isn't anyone running out of the door in despair at what this man has just said..." but of course no one did! I hope this post is not seen as self indulgent! It is probably getting off track a bit...i wonder how many other people out there though have had similar experiences though? p.s. i think it was in Canberra a few years ago that some scientist managed to prove that one atom could be in two places simultaneously! Do you know anything about that? Does this mean we will be able to say one day, "Beam me up, Scotty!" too?
MichaelJoined: 30 Nov 2006Posts: 14Location: Grafton
Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:05 pm Post subject:
Hello Coracdor, If we have too much to drink it might be "Scott me up Beamy". I suppose the point to take from our previous postings is the need to separate the message from the messenger. The messenger can often have flaws and human weaknesses - ego, vested interest, a well paying job and reputation to protect, etc. However, if the message or information is basically correct then we need to focus on it.
How often have people "worshiped" the deliverer of the message, and then doubted the validity of the message when the person delivering it was found to be flawed. This is true of science and religion, and the "esoteric arts". Therefore there is hope for "science" because the newly graduated scientists will still be idealistic and open enough to progress human understanding. While those "fossilised" and entrenched in their academic positions will always be resistant to change and new ideas (that aren't their own). Therefore I think that I have just agreed with your earlier assertion about scientific fundamentalism (in one manner of speaking). I think the fundamentals of fundamentalism (pardon the pun) is that resistance to change or new ideas is its main defining characteristic.
Fundamentalists can only really preach to other fundamentalists (the converted). Those with open minds will quickly walk away, or be "put off" by listening to the closed minded rantings of fundamentalists. I am reading a very interesting book by Mary White called Earth Alive. Current research indicates that we (the so called higher animals and plants) are really large assemblages of single celled algae and bacteria that over Billions of years learned how to absorb other bacteria and viruses into our cells structure without digesting them, and this is how we have acquired our more complex cell structure, functions and behaviours (Lynn Margulis is the originator of this idea). Therefore we are in essence a giant symbiotic organism. One of the interesting implications of this is that these first organisms are almost immortal in that they have kept reproducing by cell division, and therefore each of us contains a large number of the genes belonging to these parent life forms. Gives new meaning to the "interconnectedness" of all life don't you think! It also cancels the idea that these earlier forms of life are "primitive". They are exceedingly advanced, and had solved/developed most of the biochemical processes for life to exist on Earth as well as creating a Biosphere/Atmosphere suitable for us "higher" lifeforms to exist.
This idea of the "sacredness" and interconnectedness of all life has come from scientific research not religious speculation - ironic don't you think? It is symptomatic of human arrogance that we think that we are the crowning glory of all life on earth, the ultimate species. If we don't get our act together we won't be here much longer. There is nothing we have within us that has not been developed/perfected somewhere else first. The only advantage that I can see that we might have is our ability to "comprehend" better than other organisms, but even about this I am not sure, because we do not understand where consciousness and thought comes from and maybe tiny organisms understand as well as we do - after all we are an assemblage of microorganisms.
Michael
coradcorJoined: 29 Oct 2006Posts: 36
Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 1:00 am Post subject: life, the universe and everything..
Hi Michael Next time i have a few glasses of red wine (which probably wont be too far into the future..) i will remember 'Scott me up Beamy." I like your definition of fundamentalism: the resistance to change or new ideas... and because of our interconnectedness (from a biological level as you have pointed out and a quantum physics/consciousness level - not to mention a spiritual level)
I feel that i must start from within myself: I must ensure that i am not resistant to new ideas and changes first before i expect others to be open. You speak eloquently of our biological interconnectedness (which i totally agree with) and i have also spoken to people within the field of physics who say that from an atomic level we are literally part of the stars. So, once again, our interconnectedness is emphasised.
Human beings, however, have the ability, unlike other species, to step outside of the natural biological chain of events, our 'interconnectedness' and impose their will, thought, consciousness upon the natural world. And, in doing so, create isolated environments which are totally at odds with symbiotic nature. It is a power trip that has been going on for such a long time and I agree with you that such a disregard for the natural order of things cannot be sustained forever. But also feel that the very thing that we are arrogantly disregarding (i.e. our interconnectedness) will also be the very thing (ironically) that saves us!
Here is a quote from a website relating to our impact upon the world: "The interrelation of human consciousness and the observed world is obvious in Bell's Theorem. Human consciousness and the physical world cannot be regarded as distinct, separate entities. What we call physical reality, the external world, is shaped - to some extent - by human thought. The lesson is clear; we cannot separate our own existence from that of the world outside. We are intimately associated not only with the earth we inhabit, but with the farthest reaches of the cosmos." http://www.hinduism.co.za/hinduism.htm#The%20Implications%20of%20this%20theorem%20are%20staggering The connection between our consciousness and the current state of our world, for me, cannot be ignored.
What is it within us that is contributing to the current state of the world? We may not be the ones 'pulling the trigger' so to speak, but that does not mean that from the level of consciousness we are not contributing to the current situation. This is not to say, of course, that we should not also contribute from a macro level to improving things (i.e. by speaking up, lobbying, protesting, doing the right things ourselves) but we need to solve this problem from all angles otherwise we will not solve it! It would be like trying to solve a cancer by just treating the external symptoms.
At some point our consciousness took a 'wrong turn' and has indulged itself in the most horrendous power trip (perhaps going back to Genesis and God supposedly giving us dominion over the earth to do with as we will). But i also suspect that this 'event' was a result of a far more significant event: our divorce from the sacred feminine in our consciousness (which you have traced the history of in other posts.) and in doing so our consciousness became imbalanced. It is meant to be the balance of male/female, god/godess, yin/yang. Without balance within, we can only create imbalance without. Without the mitigating effects of the 'yin' , the 'yang' runs rampant with power abuse! This responsibility from an internal level for the current situation is for me both damned annoying and exhilirating all at the same time. I want so much to get seriously pissed off with Howard and Bush (who share in the definition of fundamentalism: resistance to new ideas and change) and blame others for the current situation.......but there is still this little voice within me that says, 'what about you? Are you being resistant to the new idea that you are contributing to this world from the level of consciousness. And what are you going to do about that?" . I
MichaelJoined: 30 Nov 2006Posts: 14Location: Grafton
Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 6:32 am Post subject:
Hello coradcor.
Today I listened to a radio program put out by Christian Fundamentalists trying to discredit Charles Darwin and the theory of evolution by natural selection. I thought that I would post this to illustrate the danger and the methods of such fundamentalists. The tactic they used was to put up two separate and unrelated statements. One was about the nastiness and attrocities committed by Nazi Germans and Imperial Japanese in World War Two. The second statement was a total misrepresentation of Darwin's theory of evolution. They then proceeded to try to link the first item to the second. ie the actions of Nazi's and Japs was a result of their following of Darwin's theories. Darwin at no point in his treatise ever talks about master races or racial superiority.
In Darwins theory evolution takes place on an individual basis not a species basis - evolution of species by natural selection. This means that if an individual has a genetic mutation which gives it some advantage over other individuals of the species and improves its chances of survival in a hard world then this individual will probably live longer and thereby propagate more. This will increase the frequency of this trait in the next generation. And so species evolve over time. There is no master anything, just relative advantages between individuals. The fact that "good upright god fearing" Christians have been murdering and oppressing Jews and non-conformist Christian groups (Cathars, etc) for 1500 years prior to Darwin and his theory is an inconvenient fact that never gets mentioned, as it would ruin the argument and reveal its false logic. Another historical item which does not get mentioned regarding attrocities (murder, torture, etc) is called the "Holy" Inquisition - which I do believe has something to do with "Christians" - Catholics again. The Germans were merely perpetuating behaviours, prejudices and intolerances, that have been prevalent in Christian Europe for centuries - just on a much bigger scale.
Similarly, there were pogroms against Jews in Tsarist Russia long before Darwin. With regard to the Japanese, they have a long history of violent behaviour to each other and foreigners that existed well before Darwin. My understanding is that some of the early Christian Missionaries to Japan were boiled alive, or dispatched is some similar unpleasant manner. The point here is that Japan and Germany in world war 2 were indulging in the same empire building that the other European "Powers" had been doing for some time, but using more extreme methods to remove any that they considered opponents or "undesirables". These other colonial powers Britain, France, Spain, Portugal, Holland, Italy also have a long list of attrocities committed against native populations around the world for the last 600 years to answer for. Christian Fundamentalists and other Fundamentalists will not hesitate to lie, distort the facts, misrepresent the facts, and deliberately omit any information that does not aid in the dissemination of their falsehoods and wacky dogmas. Truthfulness has no place in a fundamentalists list of desirable character traits. Hence my earlier postings warning of the dangers posed by these sad individuals. Michael
MB on EdgeJoined: 29 Oct 2006Posts: 17
Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 8:48 am Post subject:
I've been trying to catch my breath after reading what you two have been writing! Trying to keep up!! Its brilliant stuff, thought provoking. Now lets see if I can add anything worth while... The arguments / manipulation people use to gain power, be seen as 'right' or to cover their own mistakes is incredible. Not just from one area of the community, but all. Even down to an individual basis in everyday life. (This includes me, I know I'm guilty of it and I'm not proud of myself for it) The lies I hear around me everyday, those that roll off the tongue so easily without thought are so dangerous! Is this what you, Coradcor, were getting at? Taking responsibility - admission of error and learning from it? Remain open to new ideas, no matter where they come from and integrate it with your beliefs of your world. To neither trivialise nor condemn someone for their thoughts if they are different to yours.
How do you know they are not right and you are wrong? We don't understand everything of this world. There is a great deal of difference between those who take what they want and disregard the rest for improvement of self... or to gain power through deception. Trouble starts when we deceive ourselves into thinking we are justified in putting forward our opinions, and in the process twist the truth, proven facts, for some sort of personal gain. Its all up to us to see through the lies and not buy into it. Don't give away your power; don't give them the satisfaction of your anger. We all get disheartened with others, its human nature. We just need to respect ourselves and try not to let it overwhelm us. Question for ourselves, not just agree._________________Peace be with you
coradcorJoined: 29 Oct 2006Posts: 36
Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:25 pm Post subject: reply
Dear Michael and MB on edge, Yes..i agree with both of you...the ability of human beings to lie to ourselves and only see what we want to see has been going on since the dawn of time.. In philosophical terms it even has a title: apologetics! This is not about objectively seeing both sides to the argument but rather rigorously defending what you believe only....and it is always so easy to ignore what doesn't quite fit into your world view (as Michael has pointed out in his post with the Christians who distort the facts for their own purposes! It is also deeply ironic to see the Chrisitans associating the concept of 'master race' to a lack of their religion....when it has been their motivating force since they gained power back in the fourth century AD) But i also agree with you, MB on edge, that i also cannot help but ask myself "Where am i doing that too?" And if i am honest i am sure that i am also capable of such self deception. Self responsibility is a huge issue and we simply cannot ask other people to do what we are not prepared to do ourselves! Not just because of ethics but because we are all connected (at the biological, consciousness, spiritual levels...) then such an action will only contribute to the hardening of this aspect of the human being into our world, not detract from it, no matter how much we may be protesting... I love your comment MB on edge to not give away our power by giving up. As Michael pointed out in his favourite book post, the Lord of the Rings is a story of people who continue to fight on despite the odds, despite everything screaming at them to the contrary, despite all logical analysis of the situation ........ and in the end they break through!! There is a message in there somewhere!!
Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 2:32 am Post subject: Fundamentalism
Should spirituality have any part to play in politics? With growing fundamentalism beginning to exert powerful influences on political policy making world wide. What danger do you see with religious fundamentalism and its impact upon our planet and leaders of governments?
Michael Joined: 30 Nov 2006Posts: 14Location: Grafton
Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 12:20 pm Post subject:
Fundamentalists - religious, political or economic are the bane of mankind and the enemy of truth. Religious fundamentalist of all religions have always been control freaks who do not like truth. Religious fundamentalists thrive on fear and ignorance. In fact you could say that fear and ignorance are what they are peddling. Free thinkers have always been persecuted by fundamentalists.
The "dark ages" were the time when religion held sway over humanity. The peasants lived in fear and were controlled by superstition, "tradition", and the church. It was only with the coming of the renaissance and removal of restrictions placed by churches on free thinking that science was able to redevelop from its original Greek, Egyptian and Middle Eastern roots. Any improvements in the human condition in the last 5 hundred years have come from research and investigation and logic replacing religious dogma. Luckily no one is burnt at the stake anymore for saying that the earth revolves around the sun and that the earth is not the centre of the universe. Science has revealed the the Universe is a beautiful and wondrous place, and given us some insights into how it works. However there is a need to remain eternally vigilant against religious nutters.
The latest form of creationist nonsense is called laughingly "intelligent design". If we are not careful these throwbacks would soon try to stop teaching science and return to superstitious mumbo jumbo. Now we have to deal with right wing and left wing political fundamentalists and "economic rationalists" - economic fundamentalists as well. The right wing political fundamentalists use fear tactics to gain and maintain control. They use fears of "terrorists" to get people to voluntarily give up freedoms that were hard won so that they can be "protected" from any nasties out there. Remember "the boat people invasion", "children overboard", and "weapons of mass destruction" of a certain political coalition to get people to vote for them, and look at what has come from it. Working Conditions have been eroded, freedom of speech restricted. Australia has marched back down the time tunnel 50 years at least. They want us to all have to carry an ID card so that all of our movements/ purchases etc can be recorded and tracked. Left wing political fundamentalist (communists, stalinists, maoists) have always functioned on total control of their populations and their freedoms of free speech, thought action and travel. They deny freedom of speech, control all media and use threats and intimidation to control their population. Look at the plight of the peasants in North Korea, or what the Communist Chinese have done in Tibet since they invaded it. Finally, we have economic "rationalists" (Economic fundamentalists) to deal with. Remember the "level playing field", the J curve, and the "global economy", G7, G10, GATT, etc. All that has resulted from this is an export of our jobs to the country that pays the lowest wages while the executives of these "global companies" pay themselves fat salaries and bonuses for sacking staff, cutting services, hiking fees and charges and reducing services. All of the above indicated flow from "fundamentalists" of one type or another. Hence they are the bane of humanity - its worst enemy and the greatest hindrance to improvement of the human condition. Michael
coradcorJoined: 29 Oct 2006Posts: 36
Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 9:59 pm Post subject: fundamentalism
Hi Michael.. love your postings... But is there such a thing a scientific fundamentalism as well? You mention political, economic and religious, all of which i agree with, but i also feel there is scientific fundamentalism. At the moment we live in a paradigm of reality that insists that there is an objective world out there that can be observed, dissected, commented upon by us.....and that in doing so we have no impact upon it....we do not effect it. I feel like this way of viewing our reality has been grounded into our very perception of life and was influenced by the scientific methods of the last 500years in particular. Or, in other words, if we get angry, upset with unfair/destructive aspects of this reality, is our reaction contributing to that reality....or does it make no difference what soever? Interestingly enough it is science that is slowly but surely dispelling this illusion..with quantum physics and movies such as What the Bleep? (have you seen it?)
Fundamentalist scientists do not burn people at the stake who disagree..but they certainly can still ridicule, isolate and discredit anyone who disagrees with their 'truth'. I think fundamentalism is an aspect of ego human nature and has the potential to worm its way into all aspects of our existence, even in the way in which we 'fight' fundamentalism. The best way to dispel fundamentalism is by ensuring that we do not think like that from within. Because quantum physics is now insisting that consciousness effects our reality (something that spiritual people have know for a long while..) then the way in which we approach this will be all important. Otherwise we will only replace one form of fundamentalism with another...
MichaelJoined: 30 Nov 2006Posts: 14Location: Grafton
Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:13 pm Post subject:
Hello Coradcor. I am pleased you like my postings. Just a couple of comments. If you have studied any quantum mechanics you may have heard of the Heisenberg Uncertainty principle. This principle states that just by observing something (taking some measurement using light waves because of the atomic scales we need to measure) we actually interfere with the item we are studying. To be exact, you cannot know the position and the momentum of a particle at the same time, because the very act of measuring one changes the other.
Have you heard of the idea that nothing happens without an observer? This one is a bit like the statement that "if a tree falls in the forest and no one hears/sees it, did it fall? The other interesting idea to come from theoretical physics is the idea of an infinite number of parallel universes where every possible outcome (even theoretical ones) exists. Every decision/choice you make creates an additional universe with a new set of possibilities resulting from the choices you make. The problem with scientists (and anyone else) who spends a lot of time and money studying something is that they then have a "patch to defend". This is especially true when they have personally developed or supported some particular theory. Then when a new better theory comes along they are resistant to dropping all they have based their reputation on and adopting the new better theory.
Unfortunately some scientists have this flaw. Whether you would call it resistance to change, blinkered vision, or personal prejudices does not matter. I would pull back slightly from calling it scientific fundamentalism, and call it human weakness. I am one of those who has had some scientific training, but I still believe that there is more "out there" than we can see and feel, and science has yet discovered. What I am particularly worried about is when religious fundamentalist thinkers try to impose their dogma on research. Creationism is a classic example of this. Creationists will totally ignore a mountain of research from a range of disciplines which independently prove that something is a fact and say "it is not in the bible so it cannot be true". They will ignore fossils of ancient sea creatures or dinosaurs found in rocks on the tops of mountains and say it was a result of Noahs flood. However if you asked them why this creature was not saved by Noah (ie one of the passengers in his ark), as all of the creatures were supposed to have been saved (2 by 2, 7 by 7) they would ignore the question and the evidence like they did not even exist. This type are also partial to changing the results of any experiments when the result did not coincide with their religious belief.
Religious fundamentalists initiated a prosecution in the US in the 20's or 30's against a school teacher for teaching Darwin's theory of Evolution. It made America a laughing stock around the world at the time. Spencer Tracy made a very good movie about it a long time ago (worth watching). Now there is a hardly a real scientist is the world who does not believe in the theory of evolution (except the few who come from Religious Universities in the US with bogus science degrees). To qualify with an Honours degree in science from one of these "Universities" all you have to do is quote the bible in all of your work and you will pass with flying colours.
Michael
coradcorJoined: 29 Oct 2006Posts: 36
Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 10:14 pm Post subject: reply
Hi Michael, Thanks for your reply!!! I have not had any formal scientific training and so it is actually good to have someone who has training involved in the forum (so i can pick your brain at times.... ) but the 'essence' of quantum findings is what i find absolutely amazing....the idea that something that is INTANGIBLE (consciousness, mind..) effecting something that is TANGIBLE/PHYSICAL.. is simply not possible in a purely mechanical universe......it disturbs the very foundation of our current paradigm/reality.
We are used to seeing the mind as a side effect (epiphenomena) of the brain....not the other way around. The idea that consciousness is primary is revolutionary to our current way of living. Don't get me wrong: If i had to throw my lot in with either the religious fundamentalists or the scientific 'fundamentalists' ... i would be choosing the scientists any day....i guess i have had though experiences (while at uni) of trying to broach the subject ( of a greater reality) with various professors and was met with a constant wall of patronising ridicule or rock solid 'you are wrong'.
It annoys me now because i did not realize at the time that all this quantum stuff had been around for many decades already, and so their reaction was hardly displaying the type of 'openness' that one would expect of a truly objective mind. It was never a matter of expecting them to agree....but simply be objective enough to admit that there are other possibilities... based on science. I was young and impressionable at the time and found myself immediately thinking that they must be the right ones. This is truly terrible! And i feel it is a subtle form of forcing one's views onto others. They may not have have openly ignored 'logic'...but it was still present. And it certainly effected my life in a negative way for many years. I had not really experienced the Church growing up....so was spared their 'fundamentalism'.... (other than one Priest who was actually an amazing person....)...and so my first encounter with 'fundamentalism' was actually in the realm of Academia....ironic really!
MichaelJoined: 30 Nov 2006Posts: 14Location: Grafton
Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 2:02 pm Post subject:
Hello again coradcor. I know what you mean. I once broached the idea of plants having some sort of consciousness with a University Lecturer - whether they might have some sort of undiscovered nervous system (this question was prompted by the story (true or false unknown) of electrically monitoring plants and then the researcher ripping up and killing one of the plants. Supposedly when this person came back into the room the electrical signals put out by the other plants went off scale like they recognised him. Plus other plant behaviours like knowing when to flower, when to drop their leaves for winter, amazing plant strategies like mimicking the appearance of a female wasp in their flowers so that the male wasp will try to mate with it and get covered in pollen in the process which is then transferred to another flower of the species.
How could a plant "know" what a female wasp looks like. This is extremely unlikely to have occured as a genetic accident (mutation) as there are too many genes involved. She poo pooed the idea of plant consciousness as unscientific. Another lecturer came into the lecture theatre one day an said continental drift was a load of hoey. A few weeks later he came back with his tail between his legs and said things had changed - the latest research from multiple disciplines had proven it almost beyond doubt - plus discovering the mechanism by which it occurred (plate tectonics).
Science does not know all of the answers, and some scientists are rigid in their thinking (blinkered) and resistant to change. However science has given us tools to improve our understanding of the universe, which otherwise we could only speculate about. PS the implications of quantum mechanics, theoretical physics and cosmology are truly mind blowing. Things can be in two places at the same time, black holes "evaporate", etc. MichaelLast edited by Michael
coradcorJoined: 29 Oct 2006Posts: 36
Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 6:27 am Post subject: strange...
Dear Michael, I had to laugh when i read your posting....the similarity in experience is just more than a little spooky! I, too, approached a lecturer (in Philosophy) about plants (but mine was in relation to their reaction, either positive or negative, to music)... and was totally dismissed in a patronising way. I also had a lecturer come in one day (Pyschology) and announce that anyone who believes in anything other than the material world was wrong and had serious problems! I remember stopping for a moment (in absolute horror) and looking around the packed theatre and thinking to myself, "Why isn't anyone running out of the door in despair at what this man has just said..." but of course no one did! I hope this post is not seen as self indulgent! It is probably getting off track a bit...i wonder how many other people out there though have had similar experiences though? p.s. i think it was in Canberra a few years ago that some scientist managed to prove that one atom could be in two places simultaneously! Do you know anything about that? Does this mean we will be able to say one day, "Beam me up, Scotty!" too?
MichaelJoined: 30 Nov 2006Posts: 14Location: Grafton
Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:05 pm Post subject:
Hello Coracdor, If we have too much to drink it might be "Scott me up Beamy". I suppose the point to take from our previous postings is the need to separate the message from the messenger. The messenger can often have flaws and human weaknesses - ego, vested interest, a well paying job and reputation to protect, etc. However, if the message or information is basically correct then we need to focus on it.
How often have people "worshiped" the deliverer of the message, and then doubted the validity of the message when the person delivering it was found to be flawed. This is true of science and religion, and the "esoteric arts". Therefore there is hope for "science" because the newly graduated scientists will still be idealistic and open enough to progress human understanding. While those "fossilised" and entrenched in their academic positions will always be resistant to change and new ideas (that aren't their own). Therefore I think that I have just agreed with your earlier assertion about scientific fundamentalism (in one manner of speaking). I think the fundamentals of fundamentalism (pardon the pun) is that resistance to change or new ideas is its main defining characteristic.
Fundamentalists can only really preach to other fundamentalists (the converted). Those with open minds will quickly walk away, or be "put off" by listening to the closed minded rantings of fundamentalists. I am reading a very interesting book by Mary White called Earth Alive. Current research indicates that we (the so called higher animals and plants) are really large assemblages of single celled algae and bacteria that over Billions of years learned how to absorb other bacteria and viruses into our cells structure without digesting them, and this is how we have acquired our more complex cell structure, functions and behaviours (Lynn Margulis is the originator of this idea). Therefore we are in essence a giant symbiotic organism. One of the interesting implications of this is that these first organisms are almost immortal in that they have kept reproducing by cell division, and therefore each of us contains a large number of the genes belonging to these parent life forms. Gives new meaning to the "interconnectedness" of all life don't you think! It also cancels the idea that these earlier forms of life are "primitive". They are exceedingly advanced, and had solved/developed most of the biochemical processes for life to exist on Earth as well as creating a Biosphere/Atmosphere suitable for us "higher" lifeforms to exist.
This idea of the "sacredness" and interconnectedness of all life has come from scientific research not religious speculation - ironic don't you think? It is symptomatic of human arrogance that we think that we are the crowning glory of all life on earth, the ultimate species. If we don't get our act together we won't be here much longer. There is nothing we have within us that has not been developed/perfected somewhere else first. The only advantage that I can see that we might have is our ability to "comprehend" better than other organisms, but even about this I am not sure, because we do not understand where consciousness and thought comes from and maybe tiny organisms understand as well as we do - after all we are an assemblage of microorganisms.
Michael
coradcorJoined: 29 Oct 2006Posts: 36
Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 1:00 am Post subject: life, the universe and everything..
Hi Michael Next time i have a few glasses of red wine (which probably wont be too far into the future..) i will remember 'Scott me up Beamy." I like your definition of fundamentalism: the resistance to change or new ideas... and because of our interconnectedness (from a biological level as you have pointed out and a quantum physics/consciousness level - not to mention a spiritual level)
I feel that i must start from within myself: I must ensure that i am not resistant to new ideas and changes first before i expect others to be open. You speak eloquently of our biological interconnectedness (which i totally agree with) and i have also spoken to people within the field of physics who say that from an atomic level we are literally part of the stars. So, once again, our interconnectedness is emphasised.
Human beings, however, have the ability, unlike other species, to step outside of the natural biological chain of events, our 'interconnectedness' and impose their will, thought, consciousness upon the natural world. And, in doing so, create isolated environments which are totally at odds with symbiotic nature. It is a power trip that has been going on for such a long time and I agree with you that such a disregard for the natural order of things cannot be sustained forever. But also feel that the very thing that we are arrogantly disregarding (i.e. our interconnectedness) will also be the very thing (ironically) that saves us!
Here is a quote from a website relating to our impact upon the world: "The interrelation of human consciousness and the observed world is obvious in Bell's Theorem. Human consciousness and the physical world cannot be regarded as distinct, separate entities. What we call physical reality, the external world, is shaped - to some extent - by human thought. The lesson is clear; we cannot separate our own existence from that of the world outside. We are intimately associated not only with the earth we inhabit, but with the farthest reaches of the cosmos." http://www.hinduism.co.za/hinduism.htm#The%20Implications%20of%20this%20theorem%20are%20staggering The connection between our consciousness and the current state of our world, for me, cannot be ignored.
What is it within us that is contributing to the current state of the world? We may not be the ones 'pulling the trigger' so to speak, but that does not mean that from the level of consciousness we are not contributing to the current situation. This is not to say, of course, that we should not also contribute from a macro level to improving things (i.e. by speaking up, lobbying, protesting, doing the right things ourselves) but we need to solve this problem from all angles otherwise we will not solve it! It would be like trying to solve a cancer by just treating the external symptoms.
At some point our consciousness took a 'wrong turn' and has indulged itself in the most horrendous power trip (perhaps going back to Genesis and God supposedly giving us dominion over the earth to do with as we will). But i also suspect that this 'event' was a result of a far more significant event: our divorce from the sacred feminine in our consciousness (which you have traced the history of in other posts.) and in doing so our consciousness became imbalanced. It is meant to be the balance of male/female, god/godess, yin/yang. Without balance within, we can only create imbalance without. Without the mitigating effects of the 'yin' , the 'yang' runs rampant with power abuse! This responsibility from an internal level for the current situation is for me both damned annoying and exhilirating all at the same time. I want so much to get seriously pissed off with Howard and Bush (who share in the definition of fundamentalism: resistance to new ideas and change) and blame others for the current situation.......but there is still this little voice within me that says, 'what about you? Are you being resistant to the new idea that you are contributing to this world from the level of consciousness. And what are you going to do about that?" . I
MichaelJoined: 30 Nov 2006Posts: 14Location: Grafton
Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 6:32 am Post subject:
Hello coradcor.
Today I listened to a radio program put out by Christian Fundamentalists trying to discredit Charles Darwin and the theory of evolution by natural selection. I thought that I would post this to illustrate the danger and the methods of such fundamentalists. The tactic they used was to put up two separate and unrelated statements. One was about the nastiness and attrocities committed by Nazi Germans and Imperial Japanese in World War Two. The second statement was a total misrepresentation of Darwin's theory of evolution. They then proceeded to try to link the first item to the second. ie the actions of Nazi's and Japs was a result of their following of Darwin's theories. Darwin at no point in his treatise ever talks about master races or racial superiority.
In Darwins theory evolution takes place on an individual basis not a species basis - evolution of species by natural selection. This means that if an individual has a genetic mutation which gives it some advantage over other individuals of the species and improves its chances of survival in a hard world then this individual will probably live longer and thereby propagate more. This will increase the frequency of this trait in the next generation. And so species evolve over time. There is no master anything, just relative advantages between individuals. The fact that "good upright god fearing" Christians have been murdering and oppressing Jews and non-conformist Christian groups (Cathars, etc) for 1500 years prior to Darwin and his theory is an inconvenient fact that never gets mentioned, as it would ruin the argument and reveal its false logic. Another historical item which does not get mentioned regarding attrocities (murder, torture, etc) is called the "Holy" Inquisition - which I do believe has something to do with "Christians" - Catholics again. The Germans were merely perpetuating behaviours, prejudices and intolerances, that have been prevalent in Christian Europe for centuries - just on a much bigger scale.
Similarly, there were pogroms against Jews in Tsarist Russia long before Darwin. With regard to the Japanese, they have a long history of violent behaviour to each other and foreigners that existed well before Darwin. My understanding is that some of the early Christian Missionaries to Japan were boiled alive, or dispatched is some similar unpleasant manner. The point here is that Japan and Germany in world war 2 were indulging in the same empire building that the other European "Powers" had been doing for some time, but using more extreme methods to remove any that they considered opponents or "undesirables". These other colonial powers Britain, France, Spain, Portugal, Holland, Italy also have a long list of attrocities committed against native populations around the world for the last 600 years to answer for. Christian Fundamentalists and other Fundamentalists will not hesitate to lie, distort the facts, misrepresent the facts, and deliberately omit any information that does not aid in the dissemination of their falsehoods and wacky dogmas. Truthfulness has no place in a fundamentalists list of desirable character traits. Hence my earlier postings warning of the dangers posed by these sad individuals. Michael
MB on EdgeJoined: 29 Oct 2006Posts: 17
Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 8:48 am Post subject:
I've been trying to catch my breath after reading what you two have been writing! Trying to keep up!! Its brilliant stuff, thought provoking. Now lets see if I can add anything worth while... The arguments / manipulation people use to gain power, be seen as 'right' or to cover their own mistakes is incredible. Not just from one area of the community, but all. Even down to an individual basis in everyday life. (This includes me, I know I'm guilty of it and I'm not proud of myself for it) The lies I hear around me everyday, those that roll off the tongue so easily without thought are so dangerous! Is this what you, Coradcor, were getting at? Taking responsibility - admission of error and learning from it? Remain open to new ideas, no matter where they come from and integrate it with your beliefs of your world. To neither trivialise nor condemn someone for their thoughts if they are different to yours.
How do you know they are not right and you are wrong? We don't understand everything of this world. There is a great deal of difference between those who take what they want and disregard the rest for improvement of self... or to gain power through deception. Trouble starts when we deceive ourselves into thinking we are justified in putting forward our opinions, and in the process twist the truth, proven facts, for some sort of personal gain. Its all up to us to see through the lies and not buy into it. Don't give away your power; don't give them the satisfaction of your anger. We all get disheartened with others, its human nature. We just need to respect ourselves and try not to let it overwhelm us. Question for ourselves, not just agree._________________Peace be with you
coradcorJoined: 29 Oct 2006Posts: 36
Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:25 pm Post subject: reply
Dear Michael and MB on edge, Yes..i agree with both of you...the ability of human beings to lie to ourselves and only see what we want to see has been going on since the dawn of time.. In philosophical terms it even has a title: apologetics! This is not about objectively seeing both sides to the argument but rather rigorously defending what you believe only....and it is always so easy to ignore what doesn't quite fit into your world view (as Michael has pointed out in his post with the Christians who distort the facts for their own purposes! It is also deeply ironic to see the Chrisitans associating the concept of 'master race' to a lack of their religion....when it has been their motivating force since they gained power back in the fourth century AD) But i also agree with you, MB on edge, that i also cannot help but ask myself "Where am i doing that too?" And if i am honest i am sure that i am also capable of such self deception. Self responsibility is a huge issue and we simply cannot ask other people to do what we are not prepared to do ourselves! Not just because of ethics but because we are all connected (at the biological, consciousness, spiritual levels...) then such an action will only contribute to the hardening of this aspect of the human being into our world, not detract from it, no matter how much we may be protesting... I love your comment MB on edge to not give away our power by giving up. As Michael pointed out in his favourite book post, the Lord of the Rings is a story of people who continue to fight on despite the odds, despite everything screaming at them to the contrary, despite all logical analysis of the situation ........ and in the end they break through!! There is a message in there somewhere!!
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