wingsforumadminJoined: 18 Oct 2006Posts: 13
Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 5:05 am Post subject: What is Truth?
The famous words of Pontius Pilate! But in two thousand years we still have not reached an answer that all can agree upon? But is that all about to change? Never before has science intersected so neatly wth spirituality! Does this mean that we will actually be able to finally understand Truth?
MB on Edge said on Sun Oct 29, 2006 9:19 am
wow, what a question! And probably one that could be debated for another 2000 years! Maybe truth is a personal thing. What is true to one person may not be true for another. But what it is?? Could it be your conscience? Your gut instinct? Or just the result of a past lesson learned? Could it be deeper than that... maybe its when you discover your soul purpose and follow it?? Could it be deeper still and the connection to God/Universal Being/All That Is? That moment when you see who you are and that everyone on this planet are ONE. And that what you do to one other person affects the entire planet, Mother Earth included. Ha ha ha just a few ideas tossed around, got serious there, didn't I ! All in Love! _________________Peace be with you
Coradcor said on Mon Oct 30, 2006 2:43 am Post subject: Universal Truth
Dear MB on Edge I agree! I think there are personal truths and then there is Universal Truth. I read a book once on Mysticism and in it the author said that the closer we are to God in our deepest experience, the more our Truth begins to intersect, regardless of what religion we may be a part of. It is only people who are separated from God in their hearts, who get caught up in the endless differences in 'truth' in religion.
Mystics for centuries, at the end of the day, have all been saying the same thing! With different words, but the same meaning. And it makes no difference what religion we are a part of. In other words, if we were to put a bunch (is that the collective noun?)of mystics from different religions in the same room, they would all come out nodding in agreement! But if we were to put a bunch of 'lawmakers' in the same room, they would most likely come out wanting to go to war with eachother! Jesus had the same problem in his lifetime: he kept coming up against the 'lawmakers' who he saw as taking away the keys to knowledge, not protecting it!
Blessings
Thursday, August 9, 2007
What is The Sacred Feminine?
Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 3:29 am Post subject: What is the Sacred Feminine?
A discussion of the meaning of the Sacred Feminine is not necessarily a discussion about women! Nor is it just a discussion about just one woman!(i.e. Mary Magdalene). The Da Vinci Code propelled the idea forward that the Sacred Feminine is one person, Mary Magdalene and her bloodline. And although I would love to discover that Jesus was married and had children, I feel that the Sacred Feminine has much wider implications and is an Energy that is within all people, female and male, regardless of race or religion. It is an Energy that is also within all animals, plants and within the earth itself. It infuses everything and everybody.
coradcor said on Mon Oct 30, 2006 1:56 pm
Mystics through out the centuries have had their own word to describe this essential inner Force: Wisdom, Chokmah, Shekinah (Judaism) Holy Spirit, Logos (Christianity), Te (Taosim), Shakti, Prthivi, Prakrti (Indian), Nien/nen (Zen Buddhists)....and so it goes on.....It is the Feminine aspect of God, the aspect that is within everything and everybody, regardless of religion. Once we begin to become conscious of this Energy, it will change everything! Afterall, you cannot hurt, go to war against, murder, rape, destroy that which you see (and really feel and understand) as Holy. We can only destroy that which we see as being devoid of this Essence. To awaken this within is to find the Holy Grail.
MB on Edge said on Tue Oct 31, 2006 9:30 am
Today I saw the short video put together (and dedicated to Carl Sagan) from the Hubble deep field picture. I was blown away to say the least! As you watch the flight through space to what was seen on the edge of the universe, I was so full of anticipation... then, there it is. Over 10,000 galaxies from this one small area of our sky! It was like looking into the face of God.
The Feminine side of God that is so full of possibilities, promise and hidden wonders. Hidden, like knowledge and wisdom, hidden, like females through the ages. Hidden, like the modern women of some countries and hidden like the Holy Spirit is when we are so caught up in the material world that we forget to stop and smell the roses (and meditate!). It is so easy to hide yourself in this world. To deny that strength within and the intuition, to let someone else do it, for females to act useless, after all, thats what is expected. Its time to stand up, to stop denying the gut instinct and follow our inner guide. Not just women, men have gut instinct too!!! Vive la Feminine! Peace be with you
dragonfly said on Mon Nov 06, 2006 7:10 am
On hearing the words sacred feminine, the temptation might be for people to think that this relates only to women, and therefore men may shy away from entering conversations on this subject. But can I say as an explanation, that many men need to acknowledge their feminine side, and the subject, for it impacts upon them as well as any imbalance within planetary energies. If one looks at this as purely energy, and all life is energy, then all life depends upon the balance established when energies are in harmony: a balance in polarities. This not only relates to individuals, but the planet and universe at large. All energy needs the polarities to be balanced.
Let us take for example the human body. In strictly energetic terms, it is generally accepted that the right side of the body in both genders is male, + positive current, while the left side of the body is feminine, - negative current, to put this in electrical terms. So if energies of the whole planet are out of wack so to speak, unbalanced, because of the dominance of male energy from centuries of a heavily patriarchal societies and cultures, all can suffer from some form of imbalance, as is evidenced now in aggressive dominance of cultural and religious beliefs. This is being corrected by the Spiritual Hierarchy now as a raising of planetary energies, and to simply put it, pull humanity back into balance, and the subject of sacred feminine is just as important to men, as it is to females. For any imbalance anywhere effects the whole and the precious planet we call home.
Blessings
A discussion of the meaning of the Sacred Feminine is not necessarily a discussion about women! Nor is it just a discussion about just one woman!(i.e. Mary Magdalene). The Da Vinci Code propelled the idea forward that the Sacred Feminine is one person, Mary Magdalene and her bloodline. And although I would love to discover that Jesus was married and had children, I feel that the Sacred Feminine has much wider implications and is an Energy that is within all people, female and male, regardless of race or religion. It is an Energy that is also within all animals, plants and within the earth itself. It infuses everything and everybody.
coradcor said on Mon Oct 30, 2006 1:56 pm
Mystics through out the centuries have had their own word to describe this essential inner Force: Wisdom, Chokmah, Shekinah (Judaism) Holy Spirit, Logos (Christianity), Te (Taosim), Shakti, Prthivi, Prakrti (Indian), Nien/nen (Zen Buddhists)....and so it goes on.....It is the Feminine aspect of God, the aspect that is within everything and everybody, regardless of religion. Once we begin to become conscious of this Energy, it will change everything! Afterall, you cannot hurt, go to war against, murder, rape, destroy that which you see (and really feel and understand) as Holy. We can only destroy that which we see as being devoid of this Essence. To awaken this within is to find the Holy Grail.
MB on Edge said on Tue Oct 31, 2006 9:30 am
Today I saw the short video put together (and dedicated to Carl Sagan) from the Hubble deep field picture. I was blown away to say the least! As you watch the flight through space to what was seen on the edge of the universe, I was so full of anticipation... then, there it is. Over 10,000 galaxies from this one small area of our sky! It was like looking into the face of God.
The Feminine side of God that is so full of possibilities, promise and hidden wonders. Hidden, like knowledge and wisdom, hidden, like females through the ages. Hidden, like the modern women of some countries and hidden like the Holy Spirit is when we are so caught up in the material world that we forget to stop and smell the roses (and meditate!). It is so easy to hide yourself in this world. To deny that strength within and the intuition, to let someone else do it, for females to act useless, after all, thats what is expected. Its time to stand up, to stop denying the gut instinct and follow our inner guide. Not just women, men have gut instinct too!!! Vive la Feminine! Peace be with you
dragonfly said on Mon Nov 06, 2006 7:10 am
On hearing the words sacred feminine, the temptation might be for people to think that this relates only to women, and therefore men may shy away from entering conversations on this subject. But can I say as an explanation, that many men need to acknowledge their feminine side, and the subject, for it impacts upon them as well as any imbalance within planetary energies. If one looks at this as purely energy, and all life is energy, then all life depends upon the balance established when energies are in harmony: a balance in polarities. This not only relates to individuals, but the planet and universe at large. All energy needs the polarities to be balanced.
Let us take for example the human body. In strictly energetic terms, it is generally accepted that the right side of the body in both genders is male, + positive current, while the left side of the body is feminine, - negative current, to put this in electrical terms. So if energies of the whole planet are out of wack so to speak, unbalanced, because of the dominance of male energy from centuries of a heavily patriarchal societies and cultures, all can suffer from some form of imbalance, as is evidenced now in aggressive dominance of cultural and religious beliefs. This is being corrected by the Spiritual Hierarchy now as a raising of planetary energies, and to simply put it, pull humanity back into balance, and the subject of sacred feminine is just as important to men, as it is to females. For any imbalance anywhere effects the whole and the precious planet we call home.
Blessings
What Is Love?
Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 5:08 am Post subject: What Is Love?
Has Love deteriorated into a cliche? Does it even really exist? Or is it just a construction created by media and fiction to lull the masses?
MB on Edge said on Thu Nov 02, 2006 3:36 am
Love is the answer, Love is the key, all we need is Love... Love Love Love Its spoken of often, but what is it? Could it be more than that warm fuzzy feeling you get with a hug, or when you are with friends or with your chosen life partner? There are many descriptions for it, but i have never come across one that really says it for me. I think it comes with that connection to God, when you are in that moment of understanding God and that all are ONE. That moment you dont need anything else, that you dont question, when surrounded by happiness, you smile for no reason other than you feel complete. Is that all there is to it? or is there more?
The masters have given us clues, given us signposts to follow. Do they work for everyone? Do you need any specific training? According to Jesus, no we dont, all we need to do is look within. Stop worrying about not having enough material things surrounding you, you are supplied with everything you need. Allow things to come to you, but dont grab for them, dont try to control what comes. Look to the Heaven within that Jesus spoke of. If the media and movies have done anything, its to trivialise that deeper emotion, even to say its a "weak female state" to be laughed at or made fun of. Does this mean men cant feel Love? Not at all!! How silly is that! Of course they are capable of feeling all emotions, maybe the problem arises when they consider themselves above it or weakened by it, so they refuse to look at their whole selves. Thankfully there are men out there who do look, and can lead the way for others. More and more are coming to light within the world, and showing themselves! As I write this, a thunderstorm is starting, have I stirred something up, I wonder? Peace be with you
dragonflySite admin said on Mon Nov 27, 2006 12:30 am
An Insight into Christ's Love. ( Sorry for the length of this, but it had to be included in it's entirety) What is it that distinguishes us from insects or other life forms? To me the most interesting aspect of humanity is how we distinguish ourselves as human beings. What gives us the life force and energies to reach beyond the limitations of so called lower life forms to become conscious, to awaken to our divine gift, a gift of love?
Do other life forms feel love in any way like the way we feel love? To me love is the most complex of emotions, and so often I hear a description of love as experienced by people in general, and one thing becomes clear, there are so many interpretations of love, and what it means to individuals, love as distinguished from infatuation, or a self need for completion with another human being. Love to me is so much more. Love generated from the heart and soul guides me now to step forward with Creative Spirit and voice this on behalf of women. For femininity I step forward now, to explain an experience I had about a year ago.
Some would dismiss the experience as a dream, or a vision, or delusion, but what I felt was and is as real to me now as when it occurred. One morning I awoke and in that receptive state, which is often the best time to receive insights, came an experience of joy to change my life. So many times I heard the word love, and now only smile, for after my experience I know in our limited form of consciousness we don't begin to even have a glimpse of love, as it is when emanating from God.
After awakening in a peaceful state, I felt love such as I will sadly possibly not experience again in this lifetime. In this wakening state Jesus Christ fused with me, and shared with me his feelings, his thoughts, and for a brief period, it was timeless, in that I could not tell how much time went by, I experienced all of Jesus Christ's experiences. I felt His pain, his thoughts and saw through his eyes, and what I experienced showed me that we are so very limited. We do not have any knowledge of the depth of love, of his love, or that of God. Perfection isn't enough to describe love as he felt it. He loved so deeply those who were persecuting him that there were no feelings for the self. He saw and felt love before him. Every word, every injury, every wound brought only a deeper love than I can ever hope to describe. A love so pure, the only thoughts were for the oppressors, and such compassion he felt for them, sadness too, but not for himself.
He loved them so much he allowed them the lesson to be learned, knowing with time and evolution of the human race, that all of humanity would one day begin to see each other as he saw them, and take responsibility for their own actions. He saw them not as evil, no, he saw them as little children so lost, there was no way for them to experience themselves but through the pain he experienced. He gave me a great gift, to share his vision and his life, and the most painful period of his life. But this gift came with a responsibility, not because he asked it of me, but because my soul could do no less than to try to further his work, and those other great world teachers and avatars who also shared the purity of their love.
Love, if people ask me what love is, I just smile, and try desperately to recall, to hold onto the feeling of unconditional love shared with me one morning. That feeling which so easily slips away from me when confronted with the physical world. Some people would read this and just see it as nonsense. But once experienced, our potential, I could hardly live my life aware of me alone, a gift so rare cannot be wasted. Love an essence so pure it wraps you in the most divine of all energies, no human experience can touch it, compare with it, or corrupt it.
Love empowers me to strive to create a shift of consciousness for all of humanity, and in the process bring about a shift also in consciousness of the value of the feminine as one of Gods most precious gifts to humanity. What have I learned by merging with Christ? Love pure and simple, and I will continue to be his spokesperson, and carry his light forward in feminine form. Life would be so much richer for us all if I could just share with you in energetic form, the divine love of God as I have felt it.
How sad I am my words are not adequate to the task, and do not fully honour that divine gift offered, but as Lord Melchizedek explained, it was not for me alone, it had to be shared, ( Jesus Christ is an aspect of Lord Machiventa Melchizedek) The sadness I felt through his experiences, ( Jesus Christ) I feel now at times when I watch tv and see mans inhumanity to man, women and the environment. How can I just one female, invoke love in you for each other and this magnificent planet we call home? By sharing with you this website, by opening to all aspects of enlightenment energy, and being truthful, and loving you enough to make myself vulnerable and sharing my experience with Christ. It showed me Jesus Christ's love was not weak, but powerful beyond words, but his power was a gentle reminder to all people we are co-creators with God. Not some lowly creatures who need to deprive others of their truth and power. . .this is disconnection from love and so loss of power.
To love totally is to give truth's, also expressed from the heart. . .to love your enemy, for in fact you are but part of that person your criticise, wound or defile. Love is the innocence of children, hopeful, pure and trusting.
Humanity be truthful with yourselves, look at the core of you, and find judgement, envy, and lower energies, and see everyone you meet as Jesus Christ did, with respect for the Light within them, which is an extension of Gods Light, and love them, and yourself, but oppose darkness. Many people would just discount this experience as one of a dream. I could want nothing more for you than you experience love as I have.
Lord Melchizedek asked me to write this for Creative Spirit, and write about love, but from the soul. He like me knows that love is the greatest of all gifts to be shared with humanity. I share this with you, so you too may begin to see that we are offered a great gift at this time, to be all we can be, to lift humanity to new heights as we remove fear. Love is worth the risk of opening the heart.
Always will there be those who do not take our truth as theirs, but if we do not stand up and lift energies now, for the rest of our lives we may wonder, how much more love could we have shared with fellow human beings. With deep love and respect.
Dragonfly. Bright Blessings
Has Love deteriorated into a cliche? Does it even really exist? Or is it just a construction created by media and fiction to lull the masses?
MB on Edge said on Thu Nov 02, 2006 3:36 am
Love is the answer, Love is the key, all we need is Love... Love Love Love Its spoken of often, but what is it? Could it be more than that warm fuzzy feeling you get with a hug, or when you are with friends or with your chosen life partner? There are many descriptions for it, but i have never come across one that really says it for me. I think it comes with that connection to God, when you are in that moment of understanding God and that all are ONE. That moment you dont need anything else, that you dont question, when surrounded by happiness, you smile for no reason other than you feel complete. Is that all there is to it? or is there more?
The masters have given us clues, given us signposts to follow. Do they work for everyone? Do you need any specific training? According to Jesus, no we dont, all we need to do is look within. Stop worrying about not having enough material things surrounding you, you are supplied with everything you need. Allow things to come to you, but dont grab for them, dont try to control what comes. Look to the Heaven within that Jesus spoke of. If the media and movies have done anything, its to trivialise that deeper emotion, even to say its a "weak female state" to be laughed at or made fun of. Does this mean men cant feel Love? Not at all!! How silly is that! Of course they are capable of feeling all emotions, maybe the problem arises when they consider themselves above it or weakened by it, so they refuse to look at their whole selves. Thankfully there are men out there who do look, and can lead the way for others. More and more are coming to light within the world, and showing themselves! As I write this, a thunderstorm is starting, have I stirred something up, I wonder? Peace be with you
dragonflySite admin said on Mon Nov 27, 2006 12:30 am
An Insight into Christ's Love. ( Sorry for the length of this, but it had to be included in it's entirety) What is it that distinguishes us from insects or other life forms? To me the most interesting aspect of humanity is how we distinguish ourselves as human beings. What gives us the life force and energies to reach beyond the limitations of so called lower life forms to become conscious, to awaken to our divine gift, a gift of love?
Do other life forms feel love in any way like the way we feel love? To me love is the most complex of emotions, and so often I hear a description of love as experienced by people in general, and one thing becomes clear, there are so many interpretations of love, and what it means to individuals, love as distinguished from infatuation, or a self need for completion with another human being. Love to me is so much more. Love generated from the heart and soul guides me now to step forward with Creative Spirit and voice this on behalf of women. For femininity I step forward now, to explain an experience I had about a year ago.
Some would dismiss the experience as a dream, or a vision, or delusion, but what I felt was and is as real to me now as when it occurred. One morning I awoke and in that receptive state, which is often the best time to receive insights, came an experience of joy to change my life. So many times I heard the word love, and now only smile, for after my experience I know in our limited form of consciousness we don't begin to even have a glimpse of love, as it is when emanating from God.
After awakening in a peaceful state, I felt love such as I will sadly possibly not experience again in this lifetime. In this wakening state Jesus Christ fused with me, and shared with me his feelings, his thoughts, and for a brief period, it was timeless, in that I could not tell how much time went by, I experienced all of Jesus Christ's experiences. I felt His pain, his thoughts and saw through his eyes, and what I experienced showed me that we are so very limited. We do not have any knowledge of the depth of love, of his love, or that of God. Perfection isn't enough to describe love as he felt it. He loved so deeply those who were persecuting him that there were no feelings for the self. He saw and felt love before him. Every word, every injury, every wound brought only a deeper love than I can ever hope to describe. A love so pure, the only thoughts were for the oppressors, and such compassion he felt for them, sadness too, but not for himself.
He loved them so much he allowed them the lesson to be learned, knowing with time and evolution of the human race, that all of humanity would one day begin to see each other as he saw them, and take responsibility for their own actions. He saw them not as evil, no, he saw them as little children so lost, there was no way for them to experience themselves but through the pain he experienced. He gave me a great gift, to share his vision and his life, and the most painful period of his life. But this gift came with a responsibility, not because he asked it of me, but because my soul could do no less than to try to further his work, and those other great world teachers and avatars who also shared the purity of their love.
Love, if people ask me what love is, I just smile, and try desperately to recall, to hold onto the feeling of unconditional love shared with me one morning. That feeling which so easily slips away from me when confronted with the physical world. Some people would read this and just see it as nonsense. But once experienced, our potential, I could hardly live my life aware of me alone, a gift so rare cannot be wasted. Love an essence so pure it wraps you in the most divine of all energies, no human experience can touch it, compare with it, or corrupt it.
Love empowers me to strive to create a shift of consciousness for all of humanity, and in the process bring about a shift also in consciousness of the value of the feminine as one of Gods most precious gifts to humanity. What have I learned by merging with Christ? Love pure and simple, and I will continue to be his spokesperson, and carry his light forward in feminine form. Life would be so much richer for us all if I could just share with you in energetic form, the divine love of God as I have felt it.
How sad I am my words are not adequate to the task, and do not fully honour that divine gift offered, but as Lord Melchizedek explained, it was not for me alone, it had to be shared, ( Jesus Christ is an aspect of Lord Machiventa Melchizedek) The sadness I felt through his experiences, ( Jesus Christ) I feel now at times when I watch tv and see mans inhumanity to man, women and the environment. How can I just one female, invoke love in you for each other and this magnificent planet we call home? By sharing with you this website, by opening to all aspects of enlightenment energy, and being truthful, and loving you enough to make myself vulnerable and sharing my experience with Christ. It showed me Jesus Christ's love was not weak, but powerful beyond words, but his power was a gentle reminder to all people we are co-creators with God. Not some lowly creatures who need to deprive others of their truth and power. . .this is disconnection from love and so loss of power.
To love totally is to give truth's, also expressed from the heart. . .to love your enemy, for in fact you are but part of that person your criticise, wound or defile. Love is the innocence of children, hopeful, pure and trusting.
Humanity be truthful with yourselves, look at the core of you, and find judgement, envy, and lower energies, and see everyone you meet as Jesus Christ did, with respect for the Light within them, which is an extension of Gods Light, and love them, and yourself, but oppose darkness. Many people would just discount this experience as one of a dream. I could want nothing more for you than you experience love as I have.
Lord Melchizedek asked me to write this for Creative Spirit, and write about love, but from the soul. He like me knows that love is the greatest of all gifts to be shared with humanity. I share this with you, so you too may begin to see that we are offered a great gift at this time, to be all we can be, to lift humanity to new heights as we remove fear. Love is worth the risk of opening the heart.
Always will there be those who do not take our truth as theirs, but if we do not stand up and lift energies now, for the rest of our lives we may wonder, how much more love could we have shared with fellow human beings. With deep love and respect.
Dragonfly. Bright Blessings
Earth Changes
dragonflySite AdminJoined: 01 Nov 2006Posts: 32
Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 2:21 am Post subject: Earth Changes
We live in a world where changes are coming thick and fast, speeding up environmentally and energetically, and are major challengers to our comfort zones and safety. How can you help yourself and others, and contribute positive energy to aid humanity in lifting the mass consciousness past fear based thinking?
wingsforumadminJoined: 18 Oct 2006Posts: 13
Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 2:29 am Post subject:
Some time ago Lord Machiventa Melchizedek came to me and explained a part of my destiny was in service to humanity. He guided me, gave me visions of the potential future, ( one which can be changed), and he showed me, we, each one of us can influence the world we live in. The power one is a mighty thing. Look at Ghandi, Nelson Mandella, Martin Luther King Jn, Sister Theresa, they touched the lives and hearts of many millions of people. Look at those modern day movers and shakers, such as Al Gore, David Susuki, Bob Geldof, and Bono. There have been so many noble, mighty souls who have helped shape our future direction.
There have also been those who misused power like Hitler, but by and large the noble will always overpower the ignoble. Love is the key. But it isn't a powerless love, or always passive, change requires action, and we all have our part to play. Its our life and world, and we need to be active and aware about every aspect of our world, love and express joy everyday, but also speak out to help shape a new reality, if the one we are experiencing isn't all is can be. It may take time, but if enough of us through love and holding a better vision of the world pour enough energy into a dream, we can and will create a new mass consciousness. This will not only ease the wars and hatred the world is experiencing, but increase our chance of survival as the human race.
Part of this raising of mass consciousness also relates to the environment and having a sense of responsibility for our every thought, word, and deed. Living our lives as an example to other people of how to care for the environment and each other. And the power of one cannot be overlooked!
Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 2:21 am Post subject: Earth Changes
We live in a world where changes are coming thick and fast, speeding up environmentally and energetically, and are major challengers to our comfort zones and safety. How can you help yourself and others, and contribute positive energy to aid humanity in lifting the mass consciousness past fear based thinking?
wingsforumadminJoined: 18 Oct 2006Posts: 13
Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 2:29 am Post subject:
Some time ago Lord Machiventa Melchizedek came to me and explained a part of my destiny was in service to humanity. He guided me, gave me visions of the potential future, ( one which can be changed), and he showed me, we, each one of us can influence the world we live in. The power one is a mighty thing. Look at Ghandi, Nelson Mandella, Martin Luther King Jn, Sister Theresa, they touched the lives and hearts of many millions of people. Look at those modern day movers and shakers, such as Al Gore, David Susuki, Bob Geldof, and Bono. There have been so many noble, mighty souls who have helped shape our future direction.
There have also been those who misused power like Hitler, but by and large the noble will always overpower the ignoble. Love is the key. But it isn't a powerless love, or always passive, change requires action, and we all have our part to play. Its our life and world, and we need to be active and aware about every aspect of our world, love and express joy everyday, but also speak out to help shape a new reality, if the one we are experiencing isn't all is can be. It may take time, but if enough of us through love and holding a better vision of the world pour enough energy into a dream, we can and will create a new mass consciousness. This will not only ease the wars and hatred the world is experiencing, but increase our chance of survival as the human race.
Part of this raising of mass consciousness also relates to the environment and having a sense of responsibility for our every thought, word, and deed. Living our lives as an example to other people of how to care for the environment and each other. And the power of one cannot be overlooked!
The Environment
MB on EdgeJoined: 29 Oct 2006Posts: 17
Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 4:07 am Post subject: Our Environment
What is happening with our world? Are the wild weather patterns our fault? Does Mother Earth tell us she is not happy with her treatment? Is is time for us all to take responsibility for our actions instead of blaming politicians or big corporations? What could you personally do to help give this planet, our home, back its natural balance? Peace be with you
dragonflySite AdminJoined: 01 Nov 2006Posts: 32
Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 6:32 am Post subject:
In Defense Of Mother Earth. Thank you for this topic, one current and urgent for all of humanity. It is my opinion that not only should we take responsibility immediatley for our own personal share of inconsiderate abuse of the environment, but it is also by implication our fault as I see it, if by our complacancy we also allow politicians to decree a dark future for our children, and children's children, and all life on earth.
We are all responsible for global warming, but we can change this for the better. We are powerful beings when united for a cause. I am annoyed, and at times embarrased to be an Australian, when our political representives lack insight, not farsighted enough in their vision to see decisions, hard ones, need to be made yesterday to save the planet! What we need in our policy makers are powerful, wise, politicians, who see beyond economic rationalism as the only governing force. Not to cling onto fossil fuel or uranium as the only alternatives, but see beyond, and choose clean green alternatives no matter what the initial cost. Perhaps the latest statistics on GLOBAL WARMING IS A REMINDER TO US ALL what is at stake, and that personal agendas should be overlooked, such as votes at the next election, in favour of a compassionate all embracing stance on the environment. Far sighted decisions need to be made now, and upheld for the good of the planet.
I am personally sorry Al Gore can't represent us in Australia, his far sightedness, wisdom and courage has to date been sadly lacking in Australian Politics in my opinion. There are men and women of great integrity who are farsighted in Australian politics, but they are not in positions now to make immediate changes, and this saddens me.
What the world needs in my eyes, are leaders of the calibre of Al Gore, who put all they have into their truth, no matter what the personal cost. I am sure there are, just needing public support to come to the fore. It just might be the public is not only looking, but desperate for just such potential leaders to show themselves, possibly then I would feel more optimistic for our planet. We HAVE the power to change the world for the better. Sometimes we just need to open our eyes and see the blessings we have, but take for granted, to see the threats and be motivated to move as one in Mother Earths defense.
coradcorJoined: 29 Oct 2006Posts: 36
Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 9:28 pm Post subject: Is the current rain tears from heaven?
I went out west recently and witnessed a fatal accident with a young girl in her early twenties dying. It happened directly behind our vehicle. It was strange. There were many rescue workers there that had been obviously trained to make priorities..i.e. the living first and the ones that are without hope of living have less of a priority. Its practical. But my friend and i strangely enough were drawn straight to the girl and felt compelled to help her, to bless her, to pray for her. My friend held her head as she died. Later on i received a text message from another friend who always psychically seems to be aware of what is happening... and she told me that a great wave of compassion had suddenly hit the world from God. And it was making her feel like crying. She was not aware at this stage of the accident. It was interesting because at the crash site i kept feeling all these waves of compassion (for her, for her mother, for her family) which also made me cry. And then it began raining not long after!! Out West where there is a drought there has hardly been any rain for a long time. And the rain has spread out over the state and continued all the way home the next day. I really felt like the rain was the 'tears of compassion' from God. It felt very clear. Does our state of mind effect the weather as much as governments? If we were to be overwhelmed by compassion for either our fellow man, the earth itself, or one single person who is in pain, would this break the drought? Blessings
MichaelJoined: 30 Nov 2006Posts: 14Location: Grafton
Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 11:08 am Post subject:
The Biosphere of Planet Earth, otherwise known as Gaia acts as a superorganism which used negative and sometimes positive feedback loops to maintain conditions suitable for life to persist on the planet. The control mechanisms have detected "a major disturbance in the force" created by humans and are now moving to correct this disturbance.
We - the human race are about to "corrected" in a big way, for our actions are making it difficult for just about every other life form on the planet to survive. Gaia - Mother Nature (karma) or whatever name you wish to use for the process has a number of tools to correct the disturbance we are creating. 1. Using feedback loops, the climate changes we make will bring about changes in our ability to feed ourselves - we will die in large numbers and restore balance to the system. Any organism which breeds beyond the carrying capacity of its environment pays the penalty in a population crash.
We have been able to temporarily cheat this outcome to date by use of fertilisers, pesticides, herbicides, and massive inputs of energy. However we are rapidly running out of aces up our sleeves for this one. And because of the cheating, the population has had time to grow much larger, and the correction will be proportionate. 2. The disturbed environment we have produced will create conditions suitable for those vectors which will act to reduce our numbers eg. mosquitos (malaria, ross river virus, nile river virus, murray valley encephalitis, etc) rapid development of new or returned diseases and miroorganism (aids, turberculosis, plague, pox, etc, etc). 3. Competition for ever dwindling resources due to human overpopulation will lead to wars - result reduction in population of the disturbing force. 4. Mass destruction of the environment and large scale extinction of species will remove most of our support system which keeps us alive and healthy (physically, mentally and spiritually) - end result population control and removal/reduction of disturbing force, restoring balance (in geological not human time scales). Soils take thousands of years to develop, if we repent of their destruction too late, bad luck human race - no food.
Therefore to use biblical terms, we are about to reap what we have sown. In time (large amounts of time), balance will be restored to the earth. New species will have evolved to fill the niches created by the destruction caused by humans, but we - the human race will not be around to see the new earth that restores itself to health in 10 or 20 million years. Mother Earth, or Gaia, or whatever consciousness the Planet has, will regard us as a failed experiment, not to be repeated.
Michael
Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 4:07 am Post subject: Our Environment
What is happening with our world? Are the wild weather patterns our fault? Does Mother Earth tell us she is not happy with her treatment? Is is time for us all to take responsibility for our actions instead of blaming politicians or big corporations? What could you personally do to help give this planet, our home, back its natural balance? Peace be with you
dragonflySite AdminJoined: 01 Nov 2006Posts: 32
Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 6:32 am Post subject:
In Defense Of Mother Earth. Thank you for this topic, one current and urgent for all of humanity. It is my opinion that not only should we take responsibility immediatley for our own personal share of inconsiderate abuse of the environment, but it is also by implication our fault as I see it, if by our complacancy we also allow politicians to decree a dark future for our children, and children's children, and all life on earth.
We are all responsible for global warming, but we can change this for the better. We are powerful beings when united for a cause. I am annoyed, and at times embarrased to be an Australian, when our political representives lack insight, not farsighted enough in their vision to see decisions, hard ones, need to be made yesterday to save the planet! What we need in our policy makers are powerful, wise, politicians, who see beyond economic rationalism as the only governing force. Not to cling onto fossil fuel or uranium as the only alternatives, but see beyond, and choose clean green alternatives no matter what the initial cost. Perhaps the latest statistics on GLOBAL WARMING IS A REMINDER TO US ALL what is at stake, and that personal agendas should be overlooked, such as votes at the next election, in favour of a compassionate all embracing stance on the environment. Far sighted decisions need to be made now, and upheld for the good of the planet.
I am personally sorry Al Gore can't represent us in Australia, his far sightedness, wisdom and courage has to date been sadly lacking in Australian Politics in my opinion. There are men and women of great integrity who are farsighted in Australian politics, but they are not in positions now to make immediate changes, and this saddens me.
What the world needs in my eyes, are leaders of the calibre of Al Gore, who put all they have into their truth, no matter what the personal cost. I am sure there are, just needing public support to come to the fore. It just might be the public is not only looking, but desperate for just such potential leaders to show themselves, possibly then I would feel more optimistic for our planet. We HAVE the power to change the world for the better. Sometimes we just need to open our eyes and see the blessings we have, but take for granted, to see the threats and be motivated to move as one in Mother Earths defense.
coradcorJoined: 29 Oct 2006Posts: 36
Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 9:28 pm Post subject: Is the current rain tears from heaven?
I went out west recently and witnessed a fatal accident with a young girl in her early twenties dying. It happened directly behind our vehicle. It was strange. There were many rescue workers there that had been obviously trained to make priorities..i.e. the living first and the ones that are without hope of living have less of a priority. Its practical. But my friend and i strangely enough were drawn straight to the girl and felt compelled to help her, to bless her, to pray for her. My friend held her head as she died. Later on i received a text message from another friend who always psychically seems to be aware of what is happening... and she told me that a great wave of compassion had suddenly hit the world from God. And it was making her feel like crying. She was not aware at this stage of the accident. It was interesting because at the crash site i kept feeling all these waves of compassion (for her, for her mother, for her family) which also made me cry. And then it began raining not long after!! Out West where there is a drought there has hardly been any rain for a long time. And the rain has spread out over the state and continued all the way home the next day. I really felt like the rain was the 'tears of compassion' from God. It felt very clear. Does our state of mind effect the weather as much as governments? If we were to be overwhelmed by compassion for either our fellow man, the earth itself, or one single person who is in pain, would this break the drought? Blessings
MichaelJoined: 30 Nov 2006Posts: 14Location: Grafton
Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 11:08 am Post subject:
The Biosphere of Planet Earth, otherwise known as Gaia acts as a superorganism which used negative and sometimes positive feedback loops to maintain conditions suitable for life to persist on the planet. The control mechanisms have detected "a major disturbance in the force" created by humans and are now moving to correct this disturbance.
We - the human race are about to "corrected" in a big way, for our actions are making it difficult for just about every other life form on the planet to survive. Gaia - Mother Nature (karma) or whatever name you wish to use for the process has a number of tools to correct the disturbance we are creating. 1. Using feedback loops, the climate changes we make will bring about changes in our ability to feed ourselves - we will die in large numbers and restore balance to the system. Any organism which breeds beyond the carrying capacity of its environment pays the penalty in a population crash.
We have been able to temporarily cheat this outcome to date by use of fertilisers, pesticides, herbicides, and massive inputs of energy. However we are rapidly running out of aces up our sleeves for this one. And because of the cheating, the population has had time to grow much larger, and the correction will be proportionate. 2. The disturbed environment we have produced will create conditions suitable for those vectors which will act to reduce our numbers eg. mosquitos (malaria, ross river virus, nile river virus, murray valley encephalitis, etc) rapid development of new or returned diseases and miroorganism (aids, turberculosis, plague, pox, etc, etc). 3. Competition for ever dwindling resources due to human overpopulation will lead to wars - result reduction in population of the disturbing force. 4. Mass destruction of the environment and large scale extinction of species will remove most of our support system which keeps us alive and healthy (physically, mentally and spiritually) - end result population control and removal/reduction of disturbing force, restoring balance (in geological not human time scales). Soils take thousands of years to develop, if we repent of their destruction too late, bad luck human race - no food.
Therefore to use biblical terms, we are about to reap what we have sown. In time (large amounts of time), balance will be restored to the earth. New species will have evolved to fill the niches created by the destruction caused by humans, but we - the human race will not be around to see the new earth that restores itself to health in 10 or 20 million years. Mother Earth, or Gaia, or whatever consciousness the Planet has, will regard us as a failed experiment, not to be repeated.
Michael
What Do You Want?
coradcorJoined: 29 Oct 2006Posts: 36
Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 5:32 am Post subject: What do you want?
These are the first words of Jesus in the Gospel of John! What would be YOUR answer? Jesus tells us that part of the key to our spirituality is to "Love the Lord your God with your whole heart, mind and soul." (the other part being to love your neighbour as yourself). Is it possible to love God with our WHOLE heart, mind and soul.....as well as love (or want) the things of this world? Or, when we love the things of this world does this divide our hearts, diluting our awarness of God from within? Is this why Jesus told us that we cannot serve both God and money?
MB on EdgeJoined: 29 Oct 2006Posts: 17
Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 5:05 am Post subject: What I want!!
Another juicy question!! What do I want... ? I have a home, I dont need a bigger house. I have a car, I dont need a flashier model. I have enough money to pay the bills this month. I have food, clothing, all the basics and a few more! These things do not define who I am. I have freedom, to be myself, to express myself, to go where I want. I have my health. I can make choices. A have a lot more than half the world's poplulation and I'm not looking for more. My needs are covered. What do I want... ? I want the truth. I want all people given the opportunities I have, opportunities to learn, grow and think for themselves. I want all people to have freedom, but never at the expense of others. I want all people to have enough for the necessities of life. I want a world of peace, a healthy world with healthy happy people. I want ... But if Jesus stood before me and asked, "what do you want?" All I could say is ....Peace be with you
dragonflySite AdminJoined: 01 Nov 2006Posts: 32
Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 10:01 am Post subject:
What I want most is truth to be available to everyone. For fear to be sent packing, and femininity seen as a divine gift, for this is what it truly is. It is indeed my dearest wish that the Sacred Feminine will finally regain her voice.. . . to be able to speak and know her words will be respected and given a place of honour in the hearts of those who receive her words. Too long has the feminine been seen as a supporting role only, with such comments as girls should be seen and not heard. How many women and girls are subjected to ridicule, or treated badly, abused, disfigured or disadvantaged because of male dominance and insecurity.
I have no such dramatic needs for the material aspects of life, yes I would like from the universe relative comfort, to allow my family to live without worry about where their next meal or the rent will be paid. But I have no greed for me alone, but a deep and sincere prayer of mine is that all people have the opportunity to live without fear and poverty. Poverty is cruel, but I have seen people in countries where they were homeless, without a chance of a wife or girlfriend or home and food, and yet in the eyes of so many, I saw and felt only a deep spiritual reverence, something so very lacking in our modern society in Western Countries who do not think other than of the self, and their next want being filled.
Money doesn't buy you love. But LOVE and compassion can fill the soul and ease the ache so many people experience, even with the 15th rental property and stocks under their belt. Nothing fills the soul like the realisation we have a purpose, our lives can be magic when we are connected, truly connected to God. My wish list is perhaps different to other peoples, and I respect everyones right to free will and to choose their direction, but would wish for a less insular society, one separated from a sense of connection to each other, or God. . where people pass on the street and look at those who smile at them and look away.
My wish list is this.
* That everyone awakens, softens and listens to each other from the heart.
* That all females are accorded the respect they deserve
* That compassion replaces greed.
* That women reach out to aid an imbalanced world, and are honoured for their efforts.
* That men see that they are balanced when they allow the softer side of their natures to show. * That all nations are seen as equal, all people, and aggression is a thing of the past.
* What I want is for all people to see themselves as co-creators, and honour each other as divine beings. There is great strength in gentleness, and love, and all need it. This continues to be what I wish for.
MichaelJoined: 30 Nov 2006Posts: 14Location: Grafton
Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:35 pm Post subject:
I want Spaceship Earth with its beautiful scenery, and its cargo of life forms that has taken billions of years to evolve to its present state still be around for billions more years, and not be destroyed by the activities of one out of control species in the space of 2 thousand years - the blink of an eye Geologically speaking. The Earth is our home and our life support system. Without it all other wishes and wants fade into insignificance and irrelevance. The Sun is the source of life on Earth, its activities have made life on Earth possible. When the Sun reaches old age and dies that is the appropriate time for life cycles to cease on this planet also. Therefore, I suppose I also want the human race to grow up, and stop acting like spoiled brats and irresponsible children.
Michael
coradcorJoined: 29 Oct 2006Posts: 36
Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 1:10 am Post subject: HOPE
Dear Michael ... as long as there are people like you who care so passionately about 'Spaceship Earth' I cannot feel anything other than optimistic..........
Thankyou. coradcor
Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 5:32 am Post subject: What do you want?
These are the first words of Jesus in the Gospel of John! What would be YOUR answer? Jesus tells us that part of the key to our spirituality is to "Love the Lord your God with your whole heart, mind and soul." (the other part being to love your neighbour as yourself). Is it possible to love God with our WHOLE heart, mind and soul.....as well as love (or want) the things of this world? Or, when we love the things of this world does this divide our hearts, diluting our awarness of God from within? Is this why Jesus told us that we cannot serve both God and money?
MB on EdgeJoined: 29 Oct 2006Posts: 17
Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 5:05 am Post subject: What I want!!
Another juicy question!! What do I want... ? I have a home, I dont need a bigger house. I have a car, I dont need a flashier model. I have enough money to pay the bills this month. I have food, clothing, all the basics and a few more! These things do not define who I am. I have freedom, to be myself, to express myself, to go where I want. I have my health. I can make choices. A have a lot more than half the world's poplulation and I'm not looking for more. My needs are covered. What do I want... ? I want the truth. I want all people given the opportunities I have, opportunities to learn, grow and think for themselves. I want all people to have freedom, but never at the expense of others. I want all people to have enough for the necessities of life. I want a world of peace, a healthy world with healthy happy people. I want ... But if Jesus stood before me and asked, "what do you want?" All I could say is ....Peace be with you
dragonflySite AdminJoined: 01 Nov 2006Posts: 32
Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 10:01 am Post subject:
What I want most is truth to be available to everyone. For fear to be sent packing, and femininity seen as a divine gift, for this is what it truly is. It is indeed my dearest wish that the Sacred Feminine will finally regain her voice.. . . to be able to speak and know her words will be respected and given a place of honour in the hearts of those who receive her words. Too long has the feminine been seen as a supporting role only, with such comments as girls should be seen and not heard. How many women and girls are subjected to ridicule, or treated badly, abused, disfigured or disadvantaged because of male dominance and insecurity.
I have no such dramatic needs for the material aspects of life, yes I would like from the universe relative comfort, to allow my family to live without worry about where their next meal or the rent will be paid. But I have no greed for me alone, but a deep and sincere prayer of mine is that all people have the opportunity to live without fear and poverty. Poverty is cruel, but I have seen people in countries where they were homeless, without a chance of a wife or girlfriend or home and food, and yet in the eyes of so many, I saw and felt only a deep spiritual reverence, something so very lacking in our modern society in Western Countries who do not think other than of the self, and their next want being filled.
Money doesn't buy you love. But LOVE and compassion can fill the soul and ease the ache so many people experience, even with the 15th rental property and stocks under their belt. Nothing fills the soul like the realisation we have a purpose, our lives can be magic when we are connected, truly connected to God. My wish list is perhaps different to other peoples, and I respect everyones right to free will and to choose their direction, but would wish for a less insular society, one separated from a sense of connection to each other, or God. . where people pass on the street and look at those who smile at them and look away.
My wish list is this.
* That everyone awakens, softens and listens to each other from the heart.
* That all females are accorded the respect they deserve
* That compassion replaces greed.
* That women reach out to aid an imbalanced world, and are honoured for their efforts.
* That men see that they are balanced when they allow the softer side of their natures to show. * That all nations are seen as equal, all people, and aggression is a thing of the past.
* What I want is for all people to see themselves as co-creators, and honour each other as divine beings. There is great strength in gentleness, and love, and all need it. This continues to be what I wish for.
MichaelJoined: 30 Nov 2006Posts: 14Location: Grafton
Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:35 pm Post subject:
I want Spaceship Earth with its beautiful scenery, and its cargo of life forms that has taken billions of years to evolve to its present state still be around for billions more years, and not be destroyed by the activities of one out of control species in the space of 2 thousand years - the blink of an eye Geologically speaking. The Earth is our home and our life support system. Without it all other wishes and wants fade into insignificance and irrelevance. The Sun is the source of life on Earth, its activities have made life on Earth possible. When the Sun reaches old age and dies that is the appropriate time for life cycles to cease on this planet also. Therefore, I suppose I also want the human race to grow up, and stop acting like spoiled brats and irresponsible children.
Michael
coradcorJoined: 29 Oct 2006Posts: 36
Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 1:10 am Post subject: HOPE
Dear Michael ... as long as there are people like you who care so passionately about 'Spaceship Earth' I cannot feel anything other than optimistic..........
Thankyou. coradcor
What is Your Favourite Book?
MB on EdgeJoined: 29 Oct 2006Posts: 17
Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 5:09 am Post subject: What is your favourite book?
What is the book you would like the world to read? Which one struck a chord in your heart? Did it change your life? Your thinking?_________________Peace be with you
FruitloopJoined: 31 Oct 2006Posts: 3
Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 3:18 am Post subject:
Hmmm, There are many books that I have read that have struck a chord, that I would like the world to read. Even those that I have read, and have not resonated with me, or ring true, actually still bring me closer to knowing and understanding my own truths, beliefs and knowings. All have been valuable! Instead I have chosen to list two books here, that I read my self years before, but they seem to be making a resurgence, judging from the different people who are asking me if I have read them latley. 1) The Celestine Prophecy. I read this book perhaps 10 or more years ago. One of the things I liked about it was that it was written in a story format. Yet was able to prompt inner movement from within.
I have over the years spoken to many people who have read the book and I am amazed at the varied responses and emotions that this book has provoked. I have found that after reading this book most of these people have then continued their own journey or quest (similar to the character in the book) in broadeneing their views, beliefs ect. Can be nothing but good for the mass consciousness! 2) Conversations With God. This is a book that has sat on my shelf for a while. My Younger brother who is living with me, picked it up and started reading it. Almost every phone call to his friends now includes a recommendation to read this book. I have known these boys a while and the title alone I would have thought would have been enough to make them shut off! Yet any who have purcheased the book are now in back and forward phone calls to my brother with things like " What did you think about this part?" "Wow, what about where he says in chapter 6......" or "I can't believe it, this book has changed my life!!"etc. From what I can see some people seem to be able to relate to this better than most.I am not quite sure what that reason is but, hey.... anything that makes a positive connection on any level has got to be good.
Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 5:09 am Post subject: What is your favourite book?
What is the book you would like the world to read? Which one struck a chord in your heart? Did it change your life? Your thinking?_________________Peace be with you
FruitloopJoined: 31 Oct 2006Posts: 3
Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 3:18 am Post subject:
Hmmm, There are many books that I have read that have struck a chord, that I would like the world to read. Even those that I have read, and have not resonated with me, or ring true, actually still bring me closer to knowing and understanding my own truths, beliefs and knowings. All have been valuable! Instead I have chosen to list two books here, that I read my self years before, but they seem to be making a resurgence, judging from the different people who are asking me if I have read them latley. 1) The Celestine Prophecy. I read this book perhaps 10 or more years ago. One of the things I liked about it was that it was written in a story format. Yet was able to prompt inner movement from within.
I have over the years spoken to many people who have read the book and I am amazed at the varied responses and emotions that this book has provoked. I have found that after reading this book most of these people have then continued their own journey or quest (similar to the character in the book) in broadeneing their views, beliefs ect. Can be nothing but good for the mass consciousness! 2) Conversations With God. This is a book that has sat on my shelf for a while. My Younger brother who is living with me, picked it up and started reading it. Almost every phone call to his friends now includes a recommendation to read this book. I have known these boys a while and the title alone I would have thought would have been enough to make them shut off! Yet any who have purcheased the book are now in back and forward phone calls to my brother with things like " What did you think about this part?" "Wow, what about where he says in chapter 6......" or "I can't believe it, this book has changed my life!!"etc. From what I can see some people seem to be able to relate to this better than most.I am not quite sure what that reason is but, hey.... anything that makes a positive connection on any level has got to be good.
Fundamentalism
dragonflySite AdminJoined: 01 Nov 2006Posts: 32
Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 2:32 am Post subject: Fundamentalism
Should spirituality have any part to play in politics? With growing fundamentalism beginning to exert powerful influences on political policy making world wide. What danger do you see with religious fundamentalism and its impact upon our planet and leaders of governments?
Michael Joined: 30 Nov 2006Posts: 14Location: Grafton
Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 12:20 pm Post subject:
Fundamentalists - religious, political or economic are the bane of mankind and the enemy of truth. Religious fundamentalist of all religions have always been control freaks who do not like truth. Religious fundamentalists thrive on fear and ignorance. In fact you could say that fear and ignorance are what they are peddling. Free thinkers have always been persecuted by fundamentalists.
The "dark ages" were the time when religion held sway over humanity. The peasants lived in fear and were controlled by superstition, "tradition", and the church. It was only with the coming of the renaissance and removal of restrictions placed by churches on free thinking that science was able to redevelop from its original Greek, Egyptian and Middle Eastern roots. Any improvements in the human condition in the last 5 hundred years have come from research and investigation and logic replacing religious dogma. Luckily no one is burnt at the stake anymore for saying that the earth revolves around the sun and that the earth is not the centre of the universe. Science has revealed the the Universe is a beautiful and wondrous place, and given us some insights into how it works. However there is a need to remain eternally vigilant against religious nutters.
The latest form of creationist nonsense is called laughingly "intelligent design". If we are not careful these throwbacks would soon try to stop teaching science and return to superstitious mumbo jumbo. Now we have to deal with right wing and left wing political fundamentalists and "economic rationalists" - economic fundamentalists as well. The right wing political fundamentalists use fear tactics to gain and maintain control. They use fears of "terrorists" to get people to voluntarily give up freedoms that were hard won so that they can be "protected" from any nasties out there. Remember "the boat people invasion", "children overboard", and "weapons of mass destruction" of a certain political coalition to get people to vote for them, and look at what has come from it. Working Conditions have been eroded, freedom of speech restricted. Australia has marched back down the time tunnel 50 years at least. They want us to all have to carry an ID card so that all of our movements/ purchases etc can be recorded and tracked. Left wing political fundamentalist (communists, stalinists, maoists) have always functioned on total control of their populations and their freedoms of free speech, thought action and travel. They deny freedom of speech, control all media and use threats and intimidation to control their population. Look at the plight of the peasants in North Korea, or what the Communist Chinese have done in Tibet since they invaded it. Finally, we have economic "rationalists" (Economic fundamentalists) to deal with. Remember the "level playing field", the J curve, and the "global economy", G7, G10, GATT, etc. All that has resulted from this is an export of our jobs to the country that pays the lowest wages while the executives of these "global companies" pay themselves fat salaries and bonuses for sacking staff, cutting services, hiking fees and charges and reducing services. All of the above indicated flow from "fundamentalists" of one type or another. Hence they are the bane of humanity - its worst enemy and the greatest hindrance to improvement of the human condition. Michael
coradcorJoined: 29 Oct 2006Posts: 36
Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 9:59 pm Post subject: fundamentalism
Hi Michael.. love your postings... But is there such a thing a scientific fundamentalism as well? You mention political, economic and religious, all of which i agree with, but i also feel there is scientific fundamentalism. At the moment we live in a paradigm of reality that insists that there is an objective world out there that can be observed, dissected, commented upon by us.....and that in doing so we have no impact upon it....we do not effect it. I feel like this way of viewing our reality has been grounded into our very perception of life and was influenced by the scientific methods of the last 500years in particular. Or, in other words, if we get angry, upset with unfair/destructive aspects of this reality, is our reaction contributing to that reality....or does it make no difference what soever? Interestingly enough it is science that is slowly but surely dispelling this illusion..with quantum physics and movies such as What the Bleep? (have you seen it?)
Fundamentalist scientists do not burn people at the stake who disagree..but they certainly can still ridicule, isolate and discredit anyone who disagrees with their 'truth'. I think fundamentalism is an aspect of ego human nature and has the potential to worm its way into all aspects of our existence, even in the way in which we 'fight' fundamentalism. The best way to dispel fundamentalism is by ensuring that we do not think like that from within. Because quantum physics is now insisting that consciousness effects our reality (something that spiritual people have know for a long while..) then the way in which we approach this will be all important. Otherwise we will only replace one form of fundamentalism with another...
MichaelJoined: 30 Nov 2006Posts: 14Location: Grafton
Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:13 pm Post subject:
Hello Coradcor. I am pleased you like my postings. Just a couple of comments. If you have studied any quantum mechanics you may have heard of the Heisenberg Uncertainty principle. This principle states that just by observing something (taking some measurement using light waves because of the atomic scales we need to measure) we actually interfere with the item we are studying. To be exact, you cannot know the position and the momentum of a particle at the same time, because the very act of measuring one changes the other.
Have you heard of the idea that nothing happens without an observer? This one is a bit like the statement that "if a tree falls in the forest and no one hears/sees it, did it fall? The other interesting idea to come from theoretical physics is the idea of an infinite number of parallel universes where every possible outcome (even theoretical ones) exists. Every decision/choice you make creates an additional universe with a new set of possibilities resulting from the choices you make. The problem with scientists (and anyone else) who spends a lot of time and money studying something is that they then have a "patch to defend". This is especially true when they have personally developed or supported some particular theory. Then when a new better theory comes along they are resistant to dropping all they have based their reputation on and adopting the new better theory.
Unfortunately some scientists have this flaw. Whether you would call it resistance to change, blinkered vision, or personal prejudices does not matter. I would pull back slightly from calling it scientific fundamentalism, and call it human weakness. I am one of those who has had some scientific training, but I still believe that there is more "out there" than we can see and feel, and science has yet discovered. What I am particularly worried about is when religious fundamentalist thinkers try to impose their dogma on research. Creationism is a classic example of this. Creationists will totally ignore a mountain of research from a range of disciplines which independently prove that something is a fact and say "it is not in the bible so it cannot be true". They will ignore fossils of ancient sea creatures or dinosaurs found in rocks on the tops of mountains and say it was a result of Noahs flood. However if you asked them why this creature was not saved by Noah (ie one of the passengers in his ark), as all of the creatures were supposed to have been saved (2 by 2, 7 by 7) they would ignore the question and the evidence like they did not even exist. This type are also partial to changing the results of any experiments when the result did not coincide with their religious belief.
Religious fundamentalists initiated a prosecution in the US in the 20's or 30's against a school teacher for teaching Darwin's theory of Evolution. It made America a laughing stock around the world at the time. Spencer Tracy made a very good movie about it a long time ago (worth watching). Now there is a hardly a real scientist is the world who does not believe in the theory of evolution (except the few who come from Religious Universities in the US with bogus science degrees). To qualify with an Honours degree in science from one of these "Universities" all you have to do is quote the bible in all of your work and you will pass with flying colours.
Michael
coradcorJoined: 29 Oct 2006Posts: 36
Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 10:14 pm Post subject: reply
Hi Michael, Thanks for your reply!!! I have not had any formal scientific training and so it is actually good to have someone who has training involved in the forum (so i can pick your brain at times.... ) but the 'essence' of quantum findings is what i find absolutely amazing....the idea that something that is INTANGIBLE (consciousness, mind..) effecting something that is TANGIBLE/PHYSICAL.. is simply not possible in a purely mechanical universe......it disturbs the very foundation of our current paradigm/reality.
We are used to seeing the mind as a side effect (epiphenomena) of the brain....not the other way around. The idea that consciousness is primary is revolutionary to our current way of living. Don't get me wrong: If i had to throw my lot in with either the religious fundamentalists or the scientific 'fundamentalists' ... i would be choosing the scientists any day....i guess i have had though experiences (while at uni) of trying to broach the subject ( of a greater reality) with various professors and was met with a constant wall of patronising ridicule or rock solid 'you are wrong'.
It annoys me now because i did not realize at the time that all this quantum stuff had been around for many decades already, and so their reaction was hardly displaying the type of 'openness' that one would expect of a truly objective mind. It was never a matter of expecting them to agree....but simply be objective enough to admit that there are other possibilities... based on science. I was young and impressionable at the time and found myself immediately thinking that they must be the right ones. This is truly terrible! And i feel it is a subtle form of forcing one's views onto others. They may not have have openly ignored 'logic'...but it was still present. And it certainly effected my life in a negative way for many years. I had not really experienced the Church growing up....so was spared their 'fundamentalism'.... (other than one Priest who was actually an amazing person....)...and so my first encounter with 'fundamentalism' was actually in the realm of Academia....ironic really!
MichaelJoined: 30 Nov 2006Posts: 14Location: Grafton
Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 2:02 pm Post subject:
Hello again coradcor. I know what you mean. I once broached the idea of plants having some sort of consciousness with a University Lecturer - whether they might have some sort of undiscovered nervous system (this question was prompted by the story (true or false unknown) of electrically monitoring plants and then the researcher ripping up and killing one of the plants. Supposedly when this person came back into the room the electrical signals put out by the other plants went off scale like they recognised him. Plus other plant behaviours like knowing when to flower, when to drop their leaves for winter, amazing plant strategies like mimicking the appearance of a female wasp in their flowers so that the male wasp will try to mate with it and get covered in pollen in the process which is then transferred to another flower of the species.
How could a plant "know" what a female wasp looks like. This is extremely unlikely to have occured as a genetic accident (mutation) as there are too many genes involved. She poo pooed the idea of plant consciousness as unscientific. Another lecturer came into the lecture theatre one day an said continental drift was a load of hoey. A few weeks later he came back with his tail between his legs and said things had changed - the latest research from multiple disciplines had proven it almost beyond doubt - plus discovering the mechanism by which it occurred (plate tectonics).
Science does not know all of the answers, and some scientists are rigid in their thinking (blinkered) and resistant to change. However science has given us tools to improve our understanding of the universe, which otherwise we could only speculate about. PS the implications of quantum mechanics, theoretical physics and cosmology are truly mind blowing. Things can be in two places at the same time, black holes "evaporate", etc. MichaelLast edited by Michael
coradcorJoined: 29 Oct 2006Posts: 36
Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 6:27 am Post subject: strange...
Dear Michael, I had to laugh when i read your posting....the similarity in experience is just more than a little spooky! I, too, approached a lecturer (in Philosophy) about plants (but mine was in relation to their reaction, either positive or negative, to music)... and was totally dismissed in a patronising way. I also had a lecturer come in one day (Pyschology) and announce that anyone who believes in anything other than the material world was wrong and had serious problems! I remember stopping for a moment (in absolute horror) and looking around the packed theatre and thinking to myself, "Why isn't anyone running out of the door in despair at what this man has just said..." but of course no one did! I hope this post is not seen as self indulgent! It is probably getting off track a bit...i wonder how many other people out there though have had similar experiences though? p.s. i think it was in Canberra a few years ago that some scientist managed to prove that one atom could be in two places simultaneously! Do you know anything about that? Does this mean we will be able to say one day, "Beam me up, Scotty!" too?
MichaelJoined: 30 Nov 2006Posts: 14Location: Grafton
Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:05 pm Post subject:
Hello Coracdor, If we have too much to drink it might be "Scott me up Beamy". I suppose the point to take from our previous postings is the need to separate the message from the messenger. The messenger can often have flaws and human weaknesses - ego, vested interest, a well paying job and reputation to protect, etc. However, if the message or information is basically correct then we need to focus on it.
How often have people "worshiped" the deliverer of the message, and then doubted the validity of the message when the person delivering it was found to be flawed. This is true of science and religion, and the "esoteric arts". Therefore there is hope for "science" because the newly graduated scientists will still be idealistic and open enough to progress human understanding. While those "fossilised" and entrenched in their academic positions will always be resistant to change and new ideas (that aren't their own). Therefore I think that I have just agreed with your earlier assertion about scientific fundamentalism (in one manner of speaking). I think the fundamentals of fundamentalism (pardon the pun) is that resistance to change or new ideas is its main defining characteristic.
Fundamentalists can only really preach to other fundamentalists (the converted). Those with open minds will quickly walk away, or be "put off" by listening to the closed minded rantings of fundamentalists. I am reading a very interesting book by Mary White called Earth Alive. Current research indicates that we (the so called higher animals and plants) are really large assemblages of single celled algae and bacteria that over Billions of years learned how to absorb other bacteria and viruses into our cells structure without digesting them, and this is how we have acquired our more complex cell structure, functions and behaviours (Lynn Margulis is the originator of this idea). Therefore we are in essence a giant symbiotic organism. One of the interesting implications of this is that these first organisms are almost immortal in that they have kept reproducing by cell division, and therefore each of us contains a large number of the genes belonging to these parent life forms. Gives new meaning to the "interconnectedness" of all life don't you think! It also cancels the idea that these earlier forms of life are "primitive". They are exceedingly advanced, and had solved/developed most of the biochemical processes for life to exist on Earth as well as creating a Biosphere/Atmosphere suitable for us "higher" lifeforms to exist.
This idea of the "sacredness" and interconnectedness of all life has come from scientific research not religious speculation - ironic don't you think? It is symptomatic of human arrogance that we think that we are the crowning glory of all life on earth, the ultimate species. If we don't get our act together we won't be here much longer. There is nothing we have within us that has not been developed/perfected somewhere else first. The only advantage that I can see that we might have is our ability to "comprehend" better than other organisms, but even about this I am not sure, because we do not understand where consciousness and thought comes from and maybe tiny organisms understand as well as we do - after all we are an assemblage of microorganisms.
Michael
coradcorJoined: 29 Oct 2006Posts: 36
Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 1:00 am Post subject: life, the universe and everything..
Hi Michael Next time i have a few glasses of red wine (which probably wont be too far into the future..) i will remember 'Scott me up Beamy." I like your definition of fundamentalism: the resistance to change or new ideas... and because of our interconnectedness (from a biological level as you have pointed out and a quantum physics/consciousness level - not to mention a spiritual level)
I feel that i must start from within myself: I must ensure that i am not resistant to new ideas and changes first before i expect others to be open. You speak eloquently of our biological interconnectedness (which i totally agree with) and i have also spoken to people within the field of physics who say that from an atomic level we are literally part of the stars. So, once again, our interconnectedness is emphasised.
Human beings, however, have the ability, unlike other species, to step outside of the natural biological chain of events, our 'interconnectedness' and impose their will, thought, consciousness upon the natural world. And, in doing so, create isolated environments which are totally at odds with symbiotic nature. It is a power trip that has been going on for such a long time and I agree with you that such a disregard for the natural order of things cannot be sustained forever. But also feel that the very thing that we are arrogantly disregarding (i.e. our interconnectedness) will also be the very thing (ironically) that saves us!
Here is a quote from a website relating to our impact upon the world: "The interrelation of human consciousness and the observed world is obvious in Bell's Theorem. Human consciousness and the physical world cannot be regarded as distinct, separate entities. What we call physical reality, the external world, is shaped - to some extent - by human thought. The lesson is clear; we cannot separate our own existence from that of the world outside. We are intimately associated not only with the earth we inhabit, but with the farthest reaches of the cosmos." http://www.hinduism.co.za/hinduism.htm#The%20Implications%20of%20this%20theorem%20are%20staggering The connection between our consciousness and the current state of our world, for me, cannot be ignored.
What is it within us that is contributing to the current state of the world? We may not be the ones 'pulling the trigger' so to speak, but that does not mean that from the level of consciousness we are not contributing to the current situation. This is not to say, of course, that we should not also contribute from a macro level to improving things (i.e. by speaking up, lobbying, protesting, doing the right things ourselves) but we need to solve this problem from all angles otherwise we will not solve it! It would be like trying to solve a cancer by just treating the external symptoms.
At some point our consciousness took a 'wrong turn' and has indulged itself in the most horrendous power trip (perhaps going back to Genesis and God supposedly giving us dominion over the earth to do with as we will). But i also suspect that this 'event' was a result of a far more significant event: our divorce from the sacred feminine in our consciousness (which you have traced the history of in other posts.) and in doing so our consciousness became imbalanced. It is meant to be the balance of male/female, god/godess, yin/yang. Without balance within, we can only create imbalance without. Without the mitigating effects of the 'yin' , the 'yang' runs rampant with power abuse! This responsibility from an internal level for the current situation is for me both damned annoying and exhilirating all at the same time. I want so much to get seriously pissed off with Howard and Bush (who share in the definition of fundamentalism: resistance to new ideas and change) and blame others for the current situation.......but there is still this little voice within me that says, 'what about you? Are you being resistant to the new idea that you are contributing to this world from the level of consciousness. And what are you going to do about that?" . I
MichaelJoined: 30 Nov 2006Posts: 14Location: Grafton
Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 6:32 am Post subject:
Hello coradcor.
Today I listened to a radio program put out by Christian Fundamentalists trying to discredit Charles Darwin and the theory of evolution by natural selection. I thought that I would post this to illustrate the danger and the methods of such fundamentalists. The tactic they used was to put up two separate and unrelated statements. One was about the nastiness and attrocities committed by Nazi Germans and Imperial Japanese in World War Two. The second statement was a total misrepresentation of Darwin's theory of evolution. They then proceeded to try to link the first item to the second. ie the actions of Nazi's and Japs was a result of their following of Darwin's theories. Darwin at no point in his treatise ever talks about master races or racial superiority.
In Darwins theory evolution takes place on an individual basis not a species basis - evolution of species by natural selection. This means that if an individual has a genetic mutation which gives it some advantage over other individuals of the species and improves its chances of survival in a hard world then this individual will probably live longer and thereby propagate more. This will increase the frequency of this trait in the next generation. And so species evolve over time. There is no master anything, just relative advantages between individuals. The fact that "good upright god fearing" Christians have been murdering and oppressing Jews and non-conformist Christian groups (Cathars, etc) for 1500 years prior to Darwin and his theory is an inconvenient fact that never gets mentioned, as it would ruin the argument and reveal its false logic. Another historical item which does not get mentioned regarding attrocities (murder, torture, etc) is called the "Holy" Inquisition - which I do believe has something to do with "Christians" - Catholics again. The Germans were merely perpetuating behaviours, prejudices and intolerances, that have been prevalent in Christian Europe for centuries - just on a much bigger scale.
Similarly, there were pogroms against Jews in Tsarist Russia long before Darwin. With regard to the Japanese, they have a long history of violent behaviour to each other and foreigners that existed well before Darwin. My understanding is that some of the early Christian Missionaries to Japan were boiled alive, or dispatched is some similar unpleasant manner. The point here is that Japan and Germany in world war 2 were indulging in the same empire building that the other European "Powers" had been doing for some time, but using more extreme methods to remove any that they considered opponents or "undesirables". These other colonial powers Britain, France, Spain, Portugal, Holland, Italy also have a long list of attrocities committed against native populations around the world for the last 600 years to answer for. Christian Fundamentalists and other Fundamentalists will not hesitate to lie, distort the facts, misrepresent the facts, and deliberately omit any information that does not aid in the dissemination of their falsehoods and wacky dogmas. Truthfulness has no place in a fundamentalists list of desirable character traits. Hence my earlier postings warning of the dangers posed by these sad individuals. Michael
MB on EdgeJoined: 29 Oct 2006Posts: 17
Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 8:48 am Post subject:
I've been trying to catch my breath after reading what you two have been writing! Trying to keep up!! Its brilliant stuff, thought provoking. Now lets see if I can add anything worth while... The arguments / manipulation people use to gain power, be seen as 'right' or to cover their own mistakes is incredible. Not just from one area of the community, but all. Even down to an individual basis in everyday life. (This includes me, I know I'm guilty of it and I'm not proud of myself for it) The lies I hear around me everyday, those that roll off the tongue so easily without thought are so dangerous! Is this what you, Coradcor, were getting at? Taking responsibility - admission of error and learning from it? Remain open to new ideas, no matter where they come from and integrate it with your beliefs of your world. To neither trivialise nor condemn someone for their thoughts if they are different to yours.
How do you know they are not right and you are wrong? We don't understand everything of this world. There is a great deal of difference between those who take what they want and disregard the rest for improvement of self... or to gain power through deception. Trouble starts when we deceive ourselves into thinking we are justified in putting forward our opinions, and in the process twist the truth, proven facts, for some sort of personal gain. Its all up to us to see through the lies and not buy into it. Don't give away your power; don't give them the satisfaction of your anger. We all get disheartened with others, its human nature. We just need to respect ourselves and try not to let it overwhelm us. Question for ourselves, not just agree._________________Peace be with you
coradcorJoined: 29 Oct 2006Posts: 36
Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:25 pm Post subject: reply
Dear Michael and MB on edge, Yes..i agree with both of you...the ability of human beings to lie to ourselves and only see what we want to see has been going on since the dawn of time.. In philosophical terms it even has a title: apologetics! This is not about objectively seeing both sides to the argument but rather rigorously defending what you believe only....and it is always so easy to ignore what doesn't quite fit into your world view (as Michael has pointed out in his post with the Christians who distort the facts for their own purposes! It is also deeply ironic to see the Chrisitans associating the concept of 'master race' to a lack of their religion....when it has been their motivating force since they gained power back in the fourth century AD) But i also agree with you, MB on edge, that i also cannot help but ask myself "Where am i doing that too?" And if i am honest i am sure that i am also capable of such self deception. Self responsibility is a huge issue and we simply cannot ask other people to do what we are not prepared to do ourselves! Not just because of ethics but because we are all connected (at the biological, consciousness, spiritual levels...) then such an action will only contribute to the hardening of this aspect of the human being into our world, not detract from it, no matter how much we may be protesting... I love your comment MB on edge to not give away our power by giving up. As Michael pointed out in his favourite book post, the Lord of the Rings is a story of people who continue to fight on despite the odds, despite everything screaming at them to the contrary, despite all logical analysis of the situation ........ and in the end they break through!! There is a message in there somewhere!!
Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 2:32 am Post subject: Fundamentalism
Should spirituality have any part to play in politics? With growing fundamentalism beginning to exert powerful influences on political policy making world wide. What danger do you see with religious fundamentalism and its impact upon our planet and leaders of governments?
Michael Joined: 30 Nov 2006Posts: 14Location: Grafton
Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 12:20 pm Post subject:
Fundamentalists - religious, political or economic are the bane of mankind and the enemy of truth. Religious fundamentalist of all religions have always been control freaks who do not like truth. Religious fundamentalists thrive on fear and ignorance. In fact you could say that fear and ignorance are what they are peddling. Free thinkers have always been persecuted by fundamentalists.
The "dark ages" were the time when religion held sway over humanity. The peasants lived in fear and were controlled by superstition, "tradition", and the church. It was only with the coming of the renaissance and removal of restrictions placed by churches on free thinking that science was able to redevelop from its original Greek, Egyptian and Middle Eastern roots. Any improvements in the human condition in the last 5 hundred years have come from research and investigation and logic replacing religious dogma. Luckily no one is burnt at the stake anymore for saying that the earth revolves around the sun and that the earth is not the centre of the universe. Science has revealed the the Universe is a beautiful and wondrous place, and given us some insights into how it works. However there is a need to remain eternally vigilant against religious nutters.
The latest form of creationist nonsense is called laughingly "intelligent design". If we are not careful these throwbacks would soon try to stop teaching science and return to superstitious mumbo jumbo. Now we have to deal with right wing and left wing political fundamentalists and "economic rationalists" - economic fundamentalists as well. The right wing political fundamentalists use fear tactics to gain and maintain control. They use fears of "terrorists" to get people to voluntarily give up freedoms that were hard won so that they can be "protected" from any nasties out there. Remember "the boat people invasion", "children overboard", and "weapons of mass destruction" of a certain political coalition to get people to vote for them, and look at what has come from it. Working Conditions have been eroded, freedom of speech restricted. Australia has marched back down the time tunnel 50 years at least. They want us to all have to carry an ID card so that all of our movements/ purchases etc can be recorded and tracked. Left wing political fundamentalist (communists, stalinists, maoists) have always functioned on total control of their populations and their freedoms of free speech, thought action and travel. They deny freedom of speech, control all media and use threats and intimidation to control their population. Look at the plight of the peasants in North Korea, or what the Communist Chinese have done in Tibet since they invaded it. Finally, we have economic "rationalists" (Economic fundamentalists) to deal with. Remember the "level playing field", the J curve, and the "global economy", G7, G10, GATT, etc. All that has resulted from this is an export of our jobs to the country that pays the lowest wages while the executives of these "global companies" pay themselves fat salaries and bonuses for sacking staff, cutting services, hiking fees and charges and reducing services. All of the above indicated flow from "fundamentalists" of one type or another. Hence they are the bane of humanity - its worst enemy and the greatest hindrance to improvement of the human condition. Michael
coradcorJoined: 29 Oct 2006Posts: 36
Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 9:59 pm Post subject: fundamentalism
Hi Michael.. love your postings... But is there such a thing a scientific fundamentalism as well? You mention political, economic and religious, all of which i agree with, but i also feel there is scientific fundamentalism. At the moment we live in a paradigm of reality that insists that there is an objective world out there that can be observed, dissected, commented upon by us.....and that in doing so we have no impact upon it....we do not effect it. I feel like this way of viewing our reality has been grounded into our very perception of life and was influenced by the scientific methods of the last 500years in particular. Or, in other words, if we get angry, upset with unfair/destructive aspects of this reality, is our reaction contributing to that reality....or does it make no difference what soever? Interestingly enough it is science that is slowly but surely dispelling this illusion..with quantum physics and movies such as What the Bleep? (have you seen it?)
Fundamentalist scientists do not burn people at the stake who disagree..but they certainly can still ridicule, isolate and discredit anyone who disagrees with their 'truth'. I think fundamentalism is an aspect of ego human nature and has the potential to worm its way into all aspects of our existence, even in the way in which we 'fight' fundamentalism. The best way to dispel fundamentalism is by ensuring that we do not think like that from within. Because quantum physics is now insisting that consciousness effects our reality (something that spiritual people have know for a long while..) then the way in which we approach this will be all important. Otherwise we will only replace one form of fundamentalism with another...
MichaelJoined: 30 Nov 2006Posts: 14Location: Grafton
Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:13 pm Post subject:
Hello Coradcor. I am pleased you like my postings. Just a couple of comments. If you have studied any quantum mechanics you may have heard of the Heisenberg Uncertainty principle. This principle states that just by observing something (taking some measurement using light waves because of the atomic scales we need to measure) we actually interfere with the item we are studying. To be exact, you cannot know the position and the momentum of a particle at the same time, because the very act of measuring one changes the other.
Have you heard of the idea that nothing happens without an observer? This one is a bit like the statement that "if a tree falls in the forest and no one hears/sees it, did it fall? The other interesting idea to come from theoretical physics is the idea of an infinite number of parallel universes where every possible outcome (even theoretical ones) exists. Every decision/choice you make creates an additional universe with a new set of possibilities resulting from the choices you make. The problem with scientists (and anyone else) who spends a lot of time and money studying something is that they then have a "patch to defend". This is especially true when they have personally developed or supported some particular theory. Then when a new better theory comes along they are resistant to dropping all they have based their reputation on and adopting the new better theory.
Unfortunately some scientists have this flaw. Whether you would call it resistance to change, blinkered vision, or personal prejudices does not matter. I would pull back slightly from calling it scientific fundamentalism, and call it human weakness. I am one of those who has had some scientific training, but I still believe that there is more "out there" than we can see and feel, and science has yet discovered. What I am particularly worried about is when religious fundamentalist thinkers try to impose their dogma on research. Creationism is a classic example of this. Creationists will totally ignore a mountain of research from a range of disciplines which independently prove that something is a fact and say "it is not in the bible so it cannot be true". They will ignore fossils of ancient sea creatures or dinosaurs found in rocks on the tops of mountains and say it was a result of Noahs flood. However if you asked them why this creature was not saved by Noah (ie one of the passengers in his ark), as all of the creatures were supposed to have been saved (2 by 2, 7 by 7) they would ignore the question and the evidence like they did not even exist. This type are also partial to changing the results of any experiments when the result did not coincide with their religious belief.
Religious fundamentalists initiated a prosecution in the US in the 20's or 30's against a school teacher for teaching Darwin's theory of Evolution. It made America a laughing stock around the world at the time. Spencer Tracy made a very good movie about it a long time ago (worth watching). Now there is a hardly a real scientist is the world who does not believe in the theory of evolution (except the few who come from Religious Universities in the US with bogus science degrees). To qualify with an Honours degree in science from one of these "Universities" all you have to do is quote the bible in all of your work and you will pass with flying colours.
Michael
coradcorJoined: 29 Oct 2006Posts: 36
Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 10:14 pm Post subject: reply
Hi Michael, Thanks for your reply!!! I have not had any formal scientific training and so it is actually good to have someone who has training involved in the forum (so i can pick your brain at times.... ) but the 'essence' of quantum findings is what i find absolutely amazing....the idea that something that is INTANGIBLE (consciousness, mind..) effecting something that is TANGIBLE/PHYSICAL.. is simply not possible in a purely mechanical universe......it disturbs the very foundation of our current paradigm/reality.
We are used to seeing the mind as a side effect (epiphenomena) of the brain....not the other way around. The idea that consciousness is primary is revolutionary to our current way of living. Don't get me wrong: If i had to throw my lot in with either the religious fundamentalists or the scientific 'fundamentalists' ... i would be choosing the scientists any day....i guess i have had though experiences (while at uni) of trying to broach the subject ( of a greater reality) with various professors and was met with a constant wall of patronising ridicule or rock solid 'you are wrong'.
It annoys me now because i did not realize at the time that all this quantum stuff had been around for many decades already, and so their reaction was hardly displaying the type of 'openness' that one would expect of a truly objective mind. It was never a matter of expecting them to agree....but simply be objective enough to admit that there are other possibilities... based on science. I was young and impressionable at the time and found myself immediately thinking that they must be the right ones. This is truly terrible! And i feel it is a subtle form of forcing one's views onto others. They may not have have openly ignored 'logic'...but it was still present. And it certainly effected my life in a negative way for many years. I had not really experienced the Church growing up....so was spared their 'fundamentalism'.... (other than one Priest who was actually an amazing person....)...and so my first encounter with 'fundamentalism' was actually in the realm of Academia....ironic really!
MichaelJoined: 30 Nov 2006Posts: 14Location: Grafton
Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 2:02 pm Post subject:
Hello again coradcor. I know what you mean. I once broached the idea of plants having some sort of consciousness with a University Lecturer - whether they might have some sort of undiscovered nervous system (this question was prompted by the story (true or false unknown) of electrically monitoring plants and then the researcher ripping up and killing one of the plants. Supposedly when this person came back into the room the electrical signals put out by the other plants went off scale like they recognised him. Plus other plant behaviours like knowing when to flower, when to drop their leaves for winter, amazing plant strategies like mimicking the appearance of a female wasp in their flowers so that the male wasp will try to mate with it and get covered in pollen in the process which is then transferred to another flower of the species.
How could a plant "know" what a female wasp looks like. This is extremely unlikely to have occured as a genetic accident (mutation) as there are too many genes involved. She poo pooed the idea of plant consciousness as unscientific. Another lecturer came into the lecture theatre one day an said continental drift was a load of hoey. A few weeks later he came back with his tail between his legs and said things had changed - the latest research from multiple disciplines had proven it almost beyond doubt - plus discovering the mechanism by which it occurred (plate tectonics).
Science does not know all of the answers, and some scientists are rigid in their thinking (blinkered) and resistant to change. However science has given us tools to improve our understanding of the universe, which otherwise we could only speculate about. PS the implications of quantum mechanics, theoretical physics and cosmology are truly mind blowing. Things can be in two places at the same time, black holes "evaporate", etc. MichaelLast edited by Michael
coradcorJoined: 29 Oct 2006Posts: 36
Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 6:27 am Post subject: strange...
Dear Michael, I had to laugh when i read your posting....the similarity in experience is just more than a little spooky! I, too, approached a lecturer (in Philosophy) about plants (but mine was in relation to their reaction, either positive or negative, to music)... and was totally dismissed in a patronising way. I also had a lecturer come in one day (Pyschology) and announce that anyone who believes in anything other than the material world was wrong and had serious problems! I remember stopping for a moment (in absolute horror) and looking around the packed theatre and thinking to myself, "Why isn't anyone running out of the door in despair at what this man has just said..." but of course no one did! I hope this post is not seen as self indulgent! It is probably getting off track a bit...i wonder how many other people out there though have had similar experiences though? p.s. i think it was in Canberra a few years ago that some scientist managed to prove that one atom could be in two places simultaneously! Do you know anything about that? Does this mean we will be able to say one day, "Beam me up, Scotty!" too?
MichaelJoined: 30 Nov 2006Posts: 14Location: Grafton
Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:05 pm Post subject:
Hello Coracdor, If we have too much to drink it might be "Scott me up Beamy". I suppose the point to take from our previous postings is the need to separate the message from the messenger. The messenger can often have flaws and human weaknesses - ego, vested interest, a well paying job and reputation to protect, etc. However, if the message or information is basically correct then we need to focus on it.
How often have people "worshiped" the deliverer of the message, and then doubted the validity of the message when the person delivering it was found to be flawed. This is true of science and religion, and the "esoteric arts". Therefore there is hope for "science" because the newly graduated scientists will still be idealistic and open enough to progress human understanding. While those "fossilised" and entrenched in their academic positions will always be resistant to change and new ideas (that aren't their own). Therefore I think that I have just agreed with your earlier assertion about scientific fundamentalism (in one manner of speaking). I think the fundamentals of fundamentalism (pardon the pun) is that resistance to change or new ideas is its main defining characteristic.
Fundamentalists can only really preach to other fundamentalists (the converted). Those with open minds will quickly walk away, or be "put off" by listening to the closed minded rantings of fundamentalists. I am reading a very interesting book by Mary White called Earth Alive. Current research indicates that we (the so called higher animals and plants) are really large assemblages of single celled algae and bacteria that over Billions of years learned how to absorb other bacteria and viruses into our cells structure without digesting them, and this is how we have acquired our more complex cell structure, functions and behaviours (Lynn Margulis is the originator of this idea). Therefore we are in essence a giant symbiotic organism. One of the interesting implications of this is that these first organisms are almost immortal in that they have kept reproducing by cell division, and therefore each of us contains a large number of the genes belonging to these parent life forms. Gives new meaning to the "interconnectedness" of all life don't you think! It also cancels the idea that these earlier forms of life are "primitive". They are exceedingly advanced, and had solved/developed most of the biochemical processes for life to exist on Earth as well as creating a Biosphere/Atmosphere suitable for us "higher" lifeforms to exist.
This idea of the "sacredness" and interconnectedness of all life has come from scientific research not religious speculation - ironic don't you think? It is symptomatic of human arrogance that we think that we are the crowning glory of all life on earth, the ultimate species. If we don't get our act together we won't be here much longer. There is nothing we have within us that has not been developed/perfected somewhere else first. The only advantage that I can see that we might have is our ability to "comprehend" better than other organisms, but even about this I am not sure, because we do not understand where consciousness and thought comes from and maybe tiny organisms understand as well as we do - after all we are an assemblage of microorganisms.
Michael
coradcorJoined: 29 Oct 2006Posts: 36
Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 1:00 am Post subject: life, the universe and everything..
Hi Michael Next time i have a few glasses of red wine (which probably wont be too far into the future..) i will remember 'Scott me up Beamy." I like your definition of fundamentalism: the resistance to change or new ideas... and because of our interconnectedness (from a biological level as you have pointed out and a quantum physics/consciousness level - not to mention a spiritual level)
I feel that i must start from within myself: I must ensure that i am not resistant to new ideas and changes first before i expect others to be open. You speak eloquently of our biological interconnectedness (which i totally agree with) and i have also spoken to people within the field of physics who say that from an atomic level we are literally part of the stars. So, once again, our interconnectedness is emphasised.
Human beings, however, have the ability, unlike other species, to step outside of the natural biological chain of events, our 'interconnectedness' and impose their will, thought, consciousness upon the natural world. And, in doing so, create isolated environments which are totally at odds with symbiotic nature. It is a power trip that has been going on for such a long time and I agree with you that such a disregard for the natural order of things cannot be sustained forever. But also feel that the very thing that we are arrogantly disregarding (i.e. our interconnectedness) will also be the very thing (ironically) that saves us!
Here is a quote from a website relating to our impact upon the world: "The interrelation of human consciousness and the observed world is obvious in Bell's Theorem. Human consciousness and the physical world cannot be regarded as distinct, separate entities. What we call physical reality, the external world, is shaped - to some extent - by human thought. The lesson is clear; we cannot separate our own existence from that of the world outside. We are intimately associated not only with the earth we inhabit, but with the farthest reaches of the cosmos." http://www.hinduism.co.za/hinduism.htm#The%20Implications%20of%20this%20theorem%20are%20staggering The connection between our consciousness and the current state of our world, for me, cannot be ignored.
What is it within us that is contributing to the current state of the world? We may not be the ones 'pulling the trigger' so to speak, but that does not mean that from the level of consciousness we are not contributing to the current situation. This is not to say, of course, that we should not also contribute from a macro level to improving things (i.e. by speaking up, lobbying, protesting, doing the right things ourselves) but we need to solve this problem from all angles otherwise we will not solve it! It would be like trying to solve a cancer by just treating the external symptoms.
At some point our consciousness took a 'wrong turn' and has indulged itself in the most horrendous power trip (perhaps going back to Genesis and God supposedly giving us dominion over the earth to do with as we will). But i also suspect that this 'event' was a result of a far more significant event: our divorce from the sacred feminine in our consciousness (which you have traced the history of in other posts.) and in doing so our consciousness became imbalanced. It is meant to be the balance of male/female, god/godess, yin/yang. Without balance within, we can only create imbalance without. Without the mitigating effects of the 'yin' , the 'yang' runs rampant with power abuse! This responsibility from an internal level for the current situation is for me both damned annoying and exhilirating all at the same time. I want so much to get seriously pissed off with Howard and Bush (who share in the definition of fundamentalism: resistance to new ideas and change) and blame others for the current situation.......but there is still this little voice within me that says, 'what about you? Are you being resistant to the new idea that you are contributing to this world from the level of consciousness. And what are you going to do about that?" . I
MichaelJoined: 30 Nov 2006Posts: 14Location: Grafton
Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 6:32 am Post subject:
Hello coradcor.
Today I listened to a radio program put out by Christian Fundamentalists trying to discredit Charles Darwin and the theory of evolution by natural selection. I thought that I would post this to illustrate the danger and the methods of such fundamentalists. The tactic they used was to put up two separate and unrelated statements. One was about the nastiness and attrocities committed by Nazi Germans and Imperial Japanese in World War Two. The second statement was a total misrepresentation of Darwin's theory of evolution. They then proceeded to try to link the first item to the second. ie the actions of Nazi's and Japs was a result of their following of Darwin's theories. Darwin at no point in his treatise ever talks about master races or racial superiority.
In Darwins theory evolution takes place on an individual basis not a species basis - evolution of species by natural selection. This means that if an individual has a genetic mutation which gives it some advantage over other individuals of the species and improves its chances of survival in a hard world then this individual will probably live longer and thereby propagate more. This will increase the frequency of this trait in the next generation. And so species evolve over time. There is no master anything, just relative advantages between individuals. The fact that "good upright god fearing" Christians have been murdering and oppressing Jews and non-conformist Christian groups (Cathars, etc) for 1500 years prior to Darwin and his theory is an inconvenient fact that never gets mentioned, as it would ruin the argument and reveal its false logic. Another historical item which does not get mentioned regarding attrocities (murder, torture, etc) is called the "Holy" Inquisition - which I do believe has something to do with "Christians" - Catholics again. The Germans were merely perpetuating behaviours, prejudices and intolerances, that have been prevalent in Christian Europe for centuries - just on a much bigger scale.
Similarly, there were pogroms against Jews in Tsarist Russia long before Darwin. With regard to the Japanese, they have a long history of violent behaviour to each other and foreigners that existed well before Darwin. My understanding is that some of the early Christian Missionaries to Japan were boiled alive, or dispatched is some similar unpleasant manner. The point here is that Japan and Germany in world war 2 were indulging in the same empire building that the other European "Powers" had been doing for some time, but using more extreme methods to remove any that they considered opponents or "undesirables". These other colonial powers Britain, France, Spain, Portugal, Holland, Italy also have a long list of attrocities committed against native populations around the world for the last 600 years to answer for. Christian Fundamentalists and other Fundamentalists will not hesitate to lie, distort the facts, misrepresent the facts, and deliberately omit any information that does not aid in the dissemination of their falsehoods and wacky dogmas. Truthfulness has no place in a fundamentalists list of desirable character traits. Hence my earlier postings warning of the dangers posed by these sad individuals. Michael
MB on EdgeJoined: 29 Oct 2006Posts: 17
Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 8:48 am Post subject:
I've been trying to catch my breath after reading what you two have been writing! Trying to keep up!! Its brilliant stuff, thought provoking. Now lets see if I can add anything worth while... The arguments / manipulation people use to gain power, be seen as 'right' or to cover their own mistakes is incredible. Not just from one area of the community, but all. Even down to an individual basis in everyday life. (This includes me, I know I'm guilty of it and I'm not proud of myself for it) The lies I hear around me everyday, those that roll off the tongue so easily without thought are so dangerous! Is this what you, Coradcor, were getting at? Taking responsibility - admission of error and learning from it? Remain open to new ideas, no matter where they come from and integrate it with your beliefs of your world. To neither trivialise nor condemn someone for their thoughts if they are different to yours.
How do you know they are not right and you are wrong? We don't understand everything of this world. There is a great deal of difference between those who take what they want and disregard the rest for improvement of self... or to gain power through deception. Trouble starts when we deceive ourselves into thinking we are justified in putting forward our opinions, and in the process twist the truth, proven facts, for some sort of personal gain. Its all up to us to see through the lies and not buy into it. Don't give away your power; don't give them the satisfaction of your anger. We all get disheartened with others, its human nature. We just need to respect ourselves and try not to let it overwhelm us. Question for ourselves, not just agree._________________Peace be with you
coradcorJoined: 29 Oct 2006Posts: 36
Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:25 pm Post subject: reply
Dear Michael and MB on edge, Yes..i agree with both of you...the ability of human beings to lie to ourselves and only see what we want to see has been going on since the dawn of time.. In philosophical terms it even has a title: apologetics! This is not about objectively seeing both sides to the argument but rather rigorously defending what you believe only....and it is always so easy to ignore what doesn't quite fit into your world view (as Michael has pointed out in his post with the Christians who distort the facts for their own purposes! It is also deeply ironic to see the Chrisitans associating the concept of 'master race' to a lack of their religion....when it has been their motivating force since they gained power back in the fourth century AD) But i also agree with you, MB on edge, that i also cannot help but ask myself "Where am i doing that too?" And if i am honest i am sure that i am also capable of such self deception. Self responsibility is a huge issue and we simply cannot ask other people to do what we are not prepared to do ourselves! Not just because of ethics but because we are all connected (at the biological, consciousness, spiritual levels...) then such an action will only contribute to the hardening of this aspect of the human being into our world, not detract from it, no matter how much we may be protesting... I love your comment MB on edge to not give away our power by giving up. As Michael pointed out in his favourite book post, the Lord of the Rings is a story of people who continue to fight on despite the odds, despite everything screaming at them to the contrary, despite all logical analysis of the situation ........ and in the end they break through!! There is a message in there somewhere!!
Wings Inc :: View topic - Christ is coming, what do you see him achieving,
Wings Inc :: View topic - Christ is coming, what do you see him achieving?
Wings Inc :: View topic - How can you aid the Christ energy?
Posted: 13 Dec 2006 02:07 am Post subject:
How can you aid the Christ energy?
How can you personally aid the Christ energy?
_________________
Bright Blessings
Back to top
dragonfly
Site Admin
Joined: 01 Nov 2006
Posts: 32
Posted: 20 Feb 2007 12:37 am Post subject:
We can look within and be more aware that as beings of light we have immense power to create, for good, or evil?
We can work on ourselves each and every day and change aspects which do not come from love.
We can change our attitudes to other people and the environment, and walk in Christ's shoes for a day, and be aware each and every time we meet someone of the potential to enrich their lives or detract from it.
We can grow in responsibility for our lives and make them count, and we can do this from love.
_________________
Bright Blessings"
How can you aid the Christ energy?
How can you personally aid the Christ energy?
_________________
Bright Blessings
Back to top
dragonfly
Site Admin
Joined: 01 Nov 2006
Posts: 32
Posted: 20 Feb 2007 12:37 am Post subject:
We can look within and be more aware that as beings of light we have immense power to create, for good, or evil?
We can work on ourselves each and every day and change aspects which do not come from love.
We can change our attitudes to other people and the environment, and walk in Christ's shoes for a day, and be aware each and every time we meet someone of the potential to enrich their lives or detract from it.
We can grow in responsibility for our lives and make them count, and we can do this from love.
_________________
Bright Blessings"
If Mary Magdalene was and is Jesus Christ's equal . . .
dragonflySite AdminJoined: 01 Nov 2006Posts: 32
Posted: 13 Dec 2006 02:16 am Post subject: If Mary Magdalene was and is Jesus Christ's equal,
If Mary Magdalene was and is Jesus Christ's equal, why is she still not recognized in religious circles?
dragonflySite AdminJoined: 01 Nov 2006Posts: 32
Posted: 20 Feb 2007 01:19 am Post subject:
Fear. Fear is the primary motivating force behind the exclusion of Mary Magdalene from religious texts. So feared was she, and even to this day. Jesus Christ upheld one love above all other earthly loves. Yes he had love of his family, but the love he had for Mary was beyond earthly love. It was a potent force for love, and as a combination together, male-female, they together brought Gods love in all its force to shake the foundations of belief systems. In a time of patriarchy monopoly she was an insult to all those insecure men who did not have the degree of insight she shared with Jesus Christ. What a threat it was to a time of religious conversion, and such a threat could not be tolerated or condoned.
Mary Magdalene held a secret, one guarded by many wise people throughout history, and a great deal of speculation has been made about whether the secret she held was a child. The birth of a child to come was indeed a treat, the combining of two strong lines of decent, and given that Mary also had royal a bloodline this would have shaken the very foundations of a religion which wanted control of its messiah. The story was of course far more interesting than that. Yes Mary was indeed carrying a royal bloodline and child, a descendant of Christ, but Mary herself was the threat. She took the power away from male dominance within the church, because she held equal status as the redeemer, for want of a better description. Mary was blessed with the divine mantel just as Jesus Christ was, by their Father. This could never be tolerated, that a women came and dared to preach to give wisdom's with equal power and right of destiny. Mary was the threat, she was Jesus Christ's? true love, his divine counterpart and his divine flame. It was always meant to be a shared destiny. BALANCE. Both male and female energies in equal portion, both bringing their unique skills and strengths to the relationship, and to the teachings.
Never would it have been condoned that a woman should be able to stand equally and say. ?Hear my words they have Gods power within them?. No Mary was a threat that had to be eliminated from writings, from the scriptures, and from the history books. Jesus Christ loved his Mary.
Then as at another time in human history, God sent the same souls to embrace humanity with knowledge and personal power in connection to God. At that time Akhenaton and His Nefertiti came to awaken humanity to the glory of the one God, and sadly their gift was not received well either. Mary had a gift to share, she so loved the world she gave her very essence, her destiny into the hands of mankind. Mary loved her counterpart Jesus Christ, she loved and honoured him in all things, and he her, but they stood at the doorway, a portal of a time where change would not come easily, and so the opportunity was lost to the world. Perhaps now is the time for the planet to prepare with an energetic balancing to return the feminine, so there is balance to prepare the way for the Christ to come into his power.
How will we receive this great gift of love then? Bright Blessings
Posted: 13 Dec 2006 02:16 am Post subject: If Mary Magdalene was and is Jesus Christ's equal,
If Mary Magdalene was and is Jesus Christ's equal, why is she still not recognized in religious circles?
dragonflySite AdminJoined: 01 Nov 2006Posts: 32
Posted: 20 Feb 2007 01:19 am Post subject:
Fear. Fear is the primary motivating force behind the exclusion of Mary Magdalene from religious texts. So feared was she, and even to this day. Jesus Christ upheld one love above all other earthly loves. Yes he had love of his family, but the love he had for Mary was beyond earthly love. It was a potent force for love, and as a combination together, male-female, they together brought Gods love in all its force to shake the foundations of belief systems. In a time of patriarchy monopoly she was an insult to all those insecure men who did not have the degree of insight she shared with Jesus Christ. What a threat it was to a time of religious conversion, and such a threat could not be tolerated or condoned.
Mary Magdalene held a secret, one guarded by many wise people throughout history, and a great deal of speculation has been made about whether the secret she held was a child. The birth of a child to come was indeed a treat, the combining of two strong lines of decent, and given that Mary also had royal a bloodline this would have shaken the very foundations of a religion which wanted control of its messiah. The story was of course far more interesting than that. Yes Mary was indeed carrying a royal bloodline and child, a descendant of Christ, but Mary herself was the threat. She took the power away from male dominance within the church, because she held equal status as the redeemer, for want of a better description. Mary was blessed with the divine mantel just as Jesus Christ was, by their Father. This could never be tolerated, that a women came and dared to preach to give wisdom's with equal power and right of destiny. Mary was the threat, she was Jesus Christ's? true love, his divine counterpart and his divine flame. It was always meant to be a shared destiny. BALANCE. Both male and female energies in equal portion, both bringing their unique skills and strengths to the relationship, and to the teachings.
Never would it have been condoned that a woman should be able to stand equally and say. ?Hear my words they have Gods power within them?. No Mary was a threat that had to be eliminated from writings, from the scriptures, and from the history books. Jesus Christ loved his Mary.
Then as at another time in human history, God sent the same souls to embrace humanity with knowledge and personal power in connection to God. At that time Akhenaton and His Nefertiti came to awaken humanity to the glory of the one God, and sadly their gift was not received well either. Mary had a gift to share, she so loved the world she gave her very essence, her destiny into the hands of mankind. Mary loved her counterpart Jesus Christ, she loved and honoured him in all things, and he her, but they stood at the doorway, a portal of a time where change would not come easily, and so the opportunity was lost to the world. Perhaps now is the time for the planet to prepare with an energetic balancing to return the feminine, so there is balance to prepare the way for the Christ to come into his power.
How will we receive this great gift of love then? Bright Blessings
How To Vote
dragonflySite AdminJoined: 01 Nov 2006Posts: 32
Posted: 26 Nov 2006 02:43 am Post subject: How we Vote?
Do we need to examine our conscience on how we vote? Do we vote for self interest reasons, or because we vote upon moral convictions and personal integrity?
MichaelJoined: 30 Nov 2006Posts: 14Location: Grafton
Posted: 21 Dec 2006 10:55 am Post subject:
I am going to throw a hand grenade into this discussion topic. Should everyone above the legal age be allowed/entitled to vote? In ancient Athens, the home of Democracy as we presently understand it, the citizens of that city state were entitled to vote. A citizen had a defined meaning and did not just mean someone who was born in Athens.
At the height of the Athenian Empire (otherwise known as the Delian League) one of the islands belonging to the League decided to renounce its membership of the League (Athenian Empire). Some of the speakers in the Agora in Athens, where this matter was being debated whipped the crowd (rabble) up to the extent that they voted to have all of the inhabitants of this recalcitrant island put to death. A ship was immediately dispatched to carry out these orders. The crew did not like the orders they had been given and dallied getting there. The next day the mob (voters) had cooled down and began to repent of the rash decision they had made. Another ship was sent to try to stop the first order being carried out. Luckily they arrived just in time to prevent the massacre. This true tale gives a warning about the potential dangers of ignorant, intolerant, corrupt, or easily led (weak willed) people having a vote.
Many entitled voters make no effort to educate themselves regarding the issues involved, and will vote for anyone who will offer them a bribe, or appeal to their fears, prejudices and intolerances.
Remember John Howard got elected/re-elected by appealing to the zenophobia, fears and intolerance of the Australian voters ("Children overboard", invasion of boat people - the "Tampa" affair, terrorists etc). Should there be some other basis for determining who should have a right to vote than just being a "citizen", and what might this be? This question revolves around the pros and cons of "Democracy" as opposed to other forms of government. Some countries have theocracies - rule by religious authorities, eg Iran and some other Islamic countries, I personally don't think much of that one at all, and would consider a Western style democracy with all its faults a better option. What do you think? Michael[/u]
coradcorJoined: 29 Oct 2006Posts: 36
Posted: 21 Dec 2006 10:06 pm Post subject: reply
GREAT POSTING! Ah yes... you speak of the merciless Cleon who i am sure reincarnated as Howard today.... Cleon would go around emphatically slapping his thigh when he spoke: i used to think he was hilarious! But, just like Howard, (who we also generally make fun of ....) even the most silly politicians can have a huge and devastating impact on the course of events .... why are we so easily lead (misled) by the Cleons and Howards of this world...who work with our fears for their own ends? In the absence of true leadership we are like sheep and our voting is manipulated by unscrupulous power hungry politicians, at the expense of humanity. But the answer will surely never be to have less rights (as in other forms of government...theocracies, oligarchies etc..) democracy with all of its flaws has still produced (at least for the time being) the best way of living together as a society.
I would still rather be living in Australia than in Iran! Surely this has something to do with the politicians, past and present! And the universal right to vote? It would be great though if we could find true leadership in our current batch of leaders: someone who has a sense that all human beings were created equal and were willing to put their money where their mouth is! Where is our Pericles when we need him? Or, do we need to find the Pericles (the voice of measured honour) that is within us all? Maybe a bit of both...
wingsforumadminJoined: 18 Oct 2006Posts: 13
Posted: 09 Feb 2007 08:23 am Post subject: voting
The Vote. We live in a world at risk of being destroyed by humanities actions, and never before has it been so important to use our right to vote. I believe Greenpeace has a saying that goes something like this? Those who are complacent and do nothing, are as guilty as the perpetrators of wrongs. Complacency is a terrible thing, a waste of human potential, because it lulls people into the belief they can't make a difference. At the present time, the responsibility for this planet and its rapid decline environmentally rests with us. We can sit back and let wrongs be committed, decisions made politically which are backward and do not serve the greater good, or the welfare of future generations. But equally we can use our right to vote to make a powerful statement about how strongly we value truth, ethics, and making a courageous stand for positive change.
Elections are being held this year in Australia and America, and it just happens to be both countries are withholding support for environmental protection strategies. Both countries contribute heavily to Global warming, and also hold on blindly to old outmoded technologies in support of fossil fuels and petroleum based products, and maintaining the status quo. It is time now to act to save the environment.
NOW, and we must take our right to vote very seriously. The right to freedom of speech came at great cost. Remember, the politician who holds onto the old and refuses to move forward to grow and take brave protective measures to save the environment NOW is killing this planet. We need noble strong politicians who function upon ethical beliefs in all things and represent the population from a clear space, not acting out of ego or vested interests. We need to not look at elections and see only our own comfort levels as all important, but the welfare of this ailing planet as No 1 priority. Otherwise we are bequeathing our children and grandchildren a bleak future. I looked at the American elections some years ago and wept, and although it is only my personal opinion, and not representative of this forum administration, I saw what complacency did, with people not valuing the right to vote. I like many millions of people saw the voting procedure called into question. The world lost the opportunity to have a brilliant world leader in Al Gore, an intelligent, ethical man, compassionate about the human plight, and that of this planet. A planet he has been working to enlighten the population about and to its plight with his noble "An Inconvenient Truth". The right to vote needs to be treasured, free speech is now repressed at times if criticism is issued about a politician or their decisions, and some politicians bend truth for their own interests.
The future times we are entering needs positive individuals with the courage to see further than party lines, or political career moves as the motivator of decisions. We all make mistakes at times, but putting the wrong person into power at this time in human history could be catastrophic for the world population, and for every species upon this planet. There is no time to waste. Use your vote wisely and support only those who live truth, and promote noble values, and they are out there, they just need to be recognized.
dragonflySite AdminJoined: 01 Nov 2006Posts: 32
Posted: 20 Feb 2007 01:46 am Post subject:
Michael, Thank you for your words they convey the importance of voting. Ethics is very much in my mind now when contemplating the coming elections. I eagerly seek out any sign of a politician of merit, one who comes from integrity and truth. The responsibility we have for the world we live in never escapes my attention. Equally I feel we need to remind politicians that they are PUBLIC SERVANTS for it seems power often corrupts and when coupled with ego make for damaging leaders. When the environment is so under threat and time is of the essence, we need to make every vote count._________________Bright Blessings
Posted: 26 Nov 2006 02:43 am Post subject: How we Vote?
Do we need to examine our conscience on how we vote? Do we vote for self interest reasons, or because we vote upon moral convictions and personal integrity?
MichaelJoined: 30 Nov 2006Posts: 14Location: Grafton
Posted: 21 Dec 2006 10:55 am Post subject:
I am going to throw a hand grenade into this discussion topic. Should everyone above the legal age be allowed/entitled to vote? In ancient Athens, the home of Democracy as we presently understand it, the citizens of that city state were entitled to vote. A citizen had a defined meaning and did not just mean someone who was born in Athens.
At the height of the Athenian Empire (otherwise known as the Delian League) one of the islands belonging to the League decided to renounce its membership of the League (Athenian Empire). Some of the speakers in the Agora in Athens, where this matter was being debated whipped the crowd (rabble) up to the extent that they voted to have all of the inhabitants of this recalcitrant island put to death. A ship was immediately dispatched to carry out these orders. The crew did not like the orders they had been given and dallied getting there. The next day the mob (voters) had cooled down and began to repent of the rash decision they had made. Another ship was sent to try to stop the first order being carried out. Luckily they arrived just in time to prevent the massacre. This true tale gives a warning about the potential dangers of ignorant, intolerant, corrupt, or easily led (weak willed) people having a vote.
Many entitled voters make no effort to educate themselves regarding the issues involved, and will vote for anyone who will offer them a bribe, or appeal to their fears, prejudices and intolerances.
Remember John Howard got elected/re-elected by appealing to the zenophobia, fears and intolerance of the Australian voters ("Children overboard", invasion of boat people - the "Tampa" affair, terrorists etc). Should there be some other basis for determining who should have a right to vote than just being a "citizen", and what might this be? This question revolves around the pros and cons of "Democracy" as opposed to other forms of government. Some countries have theocracies - rule by religious authorities, eg Iran and some other Islamic countries, I personally don't think much of that one at all, and would consider a Western style democracy with all its faults a better option. What do you think? Michael[/u]
coradcorJoined: 29 Oct 2006Posts: 36
Posted: 21 Dec 2006 10:06 pm Post subject: reply
GREAT POSTING! Ah yes... you speak of the merciless Cleon who i am sure reincarnated as Howard today.... Cleon would go around emphatically slapping his thigh when he spoke: i used to think he was hilarious! But, just like Howard, (who we also generally make fun of ....) even the most silly politicians can have a huge and devastating impact on the course of events .... why are we so easily lead (misled) by the Cleons and Howards of this world...who work with our fears for their own ends? In the absence of true leadership we are like sheep and our voting is manipulated by unscrupulous power hungry politicians, at the expense of humanity. But the answer will surely never be to have less rights (as in other forms of government...theocracies, oligarchies etc..) democracy with all of its flaws has still produced (at least for the time being) the best way of living together as a society.
I would still rather be living in Australia than in Iran! Surely this has something to do with the politicians, past and present! And the universal right to vote? It would be great though if we could find true leadership in our current batch of leaders: someone who has a sense that all human beings were created equal and were willing to put their money where their mouth is! Where is our Pericles when we need him? Or, do we need to find the Pericles (the voice of measured honour) that is within us all? Maybe a bit of both...
wingsforumadminJoined: 18 Oct 2006Posts: 13
Posted: 09 Feb 2007 08:23 am Post subject: voting
The Vote. We live in a world at risk of being destroyed by humanities actions, and never before has it been so important to use our right to vote. I believe Greenpeace has a saying that goes something like this? Those who are complacent and do nothing, are as guilty as the perpetrators of wrongs. Complacency is a terrible thing, a waste of human potential, because it lulls people into the belief they can't make a difference. At the present time, the responsibility for this planet and its rapid decline environmentally rests with us. We can sit back and let wrongs be committed, decisions made politically which are backward and do not serve the greater good, or the welfare of future generations. But equally we can use our right to vote to make a powerful statement about how strongly we value truth, ethics, and making a courageous stand for positive change.
Elections are being held this year in Australia and America, and it just happens to be both countries are withholding support for environmental protection strategies. Both countries contribute heavily to Global warming, and also hold on blindly to old outmoded technologies in support of fossil fuels and petroleum based products, and maintaining the status quo. It is time now to act to save the environment.
NOW, and we must take our right to vote very seriously. The right to freedom of speech came at great cost. Remember, the politician who holds onto the old and refuses to move forward to grow and take brave protective measures to save the environment NOW is killing this planet. We need noble strong politicians who function upon ethical beliefs in all things and represent the population from a clear space, not acting out of ego or vested interests. We need to not look at elections and see only our own comfort levels as all important, but the welfare of this ailing planet as No 1 priority. Otherwise we are bequeathing our children and grandchildren a bleak future. I looked at the American elections some years ago and wept, and although it is only my personal opinion, and not representative of this forum administration, I saw what complacency did, with people not valuing the right to vote. I like many millions of people saw the voting procedure called into question. The world lost the opportunity to have a brilliant world leader in Al Gore, an intelligent, ethical man, compassionate about the human plight, and that of this planet. A planet he has been working to enlighten the population about and to its plight with his noble "An Inconvenient Truth". The right to vote needs to be treasured, free speech is now repressed at times if criticism is issued about a politician or their decisions, and some politicians bend truth for their own interests.
The future times we are entering needs positive individuals with the courage to see further than party lines, or political career moves as the motivator of decisions. We all make mistakes at times, but putting the wrong person into power at this time in human history could be catastrophic for the world population, and for every species upon this planet. There is no time to waste. Use your vote wisely and support only those who live truth, and promote noble values, and they are out there, they just need to be recognized.
dragonflySite AdminJoined: 01 Nov 2006Posts: 32
Posted: 20 Feb 2007 01:46 am Post subject:
Michael, Thank you for your words they convey the importance of voting. Ethics is very much in my mind now when contemplating the coming elections. I eagerly seek out any sign of a politician of merit, one who comes from integrity and truth. The responsibility we have for the world we live in never escapes my attention. Equally I feel we need to remind politicians that they are PUBLIC SERVANTS for it seems power often corrupts and when coupled with ego make for damaging leaders. When the environment is so under threat and time is of the essence, we need to make every vote count._________________Bright Blessings
Wings Inc :: View topic - What were Christ's original teachings?
Posted: 26 Oct 2006 05:32 am Post subject: What were Christ's original teachings?
Do we truly understand what he taught? Does it even matter? How would Jesus feel about the direction of the Christian Church today? Is Love the answer and does that describe the current Church?
MB on Edge MBonEDGE said...
think it matters what Jesus taught. I also think his lessons will become clear as things change. With more freedom to question, discuss and even disagree! there will be ideas brought forward to make us think about how Jesus' teachings have been interpreted through the centuries. Hopefully that will lead to exchanging and even updating our own personal thoughts which most find hard to express when worried someone will either disagree or condem us for maybe having a new idea. As for what Jesus would feel about todays churches, well i'm sure he would see the good it can achieve and how it is the bedrock of some peoples lives. But also, it can be destructive and narrow minded. Sometimes I wonder if the leaders think about Love or just the power to be gained by having blind followers who never question their rules... rules that can change when it suits. All that said, I hope things keep changing as they are and even speed up a little more! Bring on the Goddess! all for the better!_________________Peace be with you
10 August 2007 22:21
coradcor22 said...
Thank you mb on edge for your heart felt words..... i get angry sometimes when i see what the church as done to our world...but good to see that it is not all bad....good to be reminded..thankyou
10 August 2007 22:21
MBonEDGE said...
Yes, I get a little agro over what the churches have brought about, but I prefer to look at the positives, well, try to! It doesnt always happen... Its a shame that people get caught up in the heat of the moment and use religion as their "excuse" to hurt and kill others. If they could really see the bigger picture and what they are doing to themselves through their actions, maybe they would have a change of heart. If you see everyone as ONE and know actions have a ripple effect through the entire world and you do those actions ultimately to yourself! If you saw everyone as your brothers, or better still, your best friends, theres no way you would raise your hand to strike another. If you saw everyone as your son or daughter, the same applies. Maybe this is the view needed in the world? The feminine, the GODDESS!!_________________Peace be with you
10 August 2007 22:22
coradcor22 said...
Beneath the edifice of thousands of years of Christian exegesis, interpretation, the endless layers placed over the original experience, forever obscuring the view with other peoples opinions, fears, power agenda's, lies the life of a man who truly walked this earth and taught us that Love is the Answer! He was a man who was so at one with God, that he experienced a sense of relationship with Him, calling Him Father, Abba, in a way that was incredibly shocking back then, as it still is today for many people! For to say that God is 'our Father.." is to imply, of course, that we are his sons and daughters. Imagine announcing to someone now, "I am the son of God!" or "I am the daughter of God." Many people have been attacked for saying just such a thing (as Jesus was in his lifetime), and yet he himself said... John 10:34 "Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, i said, ye are Gods" Was Jesus God? Of course he was, because we all are! The only difference lies in whether we are experientially aware of it not! And the way to achieve this awareness? Through Love! Love of God and Love for our fellow human beings. Love is the key! And how do we experience Love? Through our intimate relationship with God, because God IS Love! How can we be Love and give Love without being connected to it? That would be like trying to water the garden but without turning the tap on! We can try as hard as we like to give water (Love), but without being connected to the water supply (God), it is impossible, no matter how good our intentions are! He taught us where to go to connect with this Love (the Kingdom of God is within), he taught us that the illusion of distance between God and us is just that, an illusion (the kingdom of God is near). Imagine if many people in the world truly began to experience this? It would transform our world!
10 August 2007 22:22
Dragonfly said...
In my opinion Jesus Christ gave simple, pure teachings full of love, without judgement of any. Never would he have inflicted pain with harsh judgements because someone was of a different religion, colour, or belief system. His teachings spoke of compassion and understanding, he spoke from the heart, he experienced and emitted love, for this is all he was. His was total connection to His Father, and he loved everyone with the same intensity, for he knew and understood that all are one, of the same essence. Love issued from him in every moment of every day, a perfect love. Imagine the most divine, pure energy that could be experienced, so pure no words could explain it, or come close, and this is Jesus Christ, son and heir to principalities of heaven, but a man nonetheless. It is my heart felt belief that Jesus Christ's teachings were also those of his beloved counterpart and divine flame, Mary Magdalene and it was also her pathway to deliver light to the world, a pathway which was cut short. It was his connection to his Father and ours which empowered him, and gave him the strength to face a destiny which gave him his significance. It is his example of love we need to look at, to see everyone we meet with new eyes, through the most powerful of all energies, love, and use his example of love to face the trials of life, just as he did. I also believe with every fibre of my being that we are all capable of such love, we just need to let go of preconceived ideas and judgments of people, and take our rightful place in continuing his legacy. . a legacy, the original essence of love given by God to every Avatar who also came to earth to deliver humanity from their own lower aspects. For there have been many wise messengers to aid humanity. I believe also that Jesus Christ would bless and stand equally with those spiritual avatars such as Mohammed, Buddha, Krishna and many others for their efforts to also reach humanity. There are many pathways to God, many mansions, and we are all one. I know in my soul he would frown and be deeply saddened that the original concepts of love, so pure and simple, have been contorted and imbued with such fear and intolerance in their human translations. Perhaps he would be filled with such joy and happiness to see humanity finally see that divisions and hatred are no longer needed and we are truly our brothers and sisters keeper. It continues to be my hope also._________________Bright Blessings
10 August 2007 22:23
MBonEDGE said...
Have you ever wondered how such a gentle man has survived through history? His words, softly spoken. His teaching so simple, down to earth and the parables were in language everone could understand. He wasnt just here for the leaders, those with money and/or influence, he was here for us, no matter who you are, he spoke to you. He spoke of Love, of truth, of learning and obeying God's Laws and of the Kingdom of Heaven within. No judgement, no discrimination. He could see your heart and Loved you anyway. If you took the time to listen to his words, he knew you questioned yourself about life and the truth. Imagine if he was here now, talking. Would you listen to his words?
10 August 2007 22:23
Dragonfly said...
Jesus Christ was never weak, he had the courage to speak out against wrongs. He loved unconditionally, but he stood up against the establishment and created waves, the ripples of which are still resonating and being felt today. He wasn't afraid to shake the foundations of institutions or people who foundered their power base upon unjust or corrupt principles. He challenged not only the religious establishments of his time, but also political rulers as well. Integrity and truth was his foundation and his strength. His teachings were inclusive of all people, he loved the so called sinner as well as the saint, and he spoke his truths knowing the energies and opposition which would come. Unlike the religious intolerance and exclusiveness which permeate present day religions, he set an example that God's love is for everyone without exception. He was committed to the spiritual purity and love of the soul, because he saw the beauty of everyones light, and that they were God's love here in physical form only trying to find their way home, often through some very painful and seemingly wasteful lessons. Jesus Christ held women in a place of honour, and saw equality of the sexes as all important and still does! He loved Mary Magdalene totally. I have worked with Lord Melchizedek for a long time, and as Jesus Christ is an aspect of Lord Melchizedek, and I have worked with him also, I feel I can add these words. I do not think he is at all happy with the aftermath of his great gift to humanity, and the way Christianity has taken on its own direction, and created a power base not wholesome nor pure. Oh yes there have been wonderful efforts in the name of Christianity, and from individuals, but also some very destructive pathways which do not do justice to his life as Jesus Christ. At times I feel his feelings, and there is great sadness for the lack of unconditional love and the corruption of the simple truths he came to teach. He is not happy about the divisions which have developed between religions, sects, or belief systems, and all of the Spiritual Hierarchy are very concerned for the way hatred and exclusiveness have separated humanity. I know for a fact that he is particularly concerned that political leaders are so concerned for their own survival at the polls, that fear is used as a tool to create instability in society. He is concerned also with the great divide being created with economic rationalism, of the haves and the have nots, and particularly the plight of the homeless, street kids, and the millions of people who will be needing loving assistance in the coming times, those refugees, countries of wealth are sending off shore or excluding. Love was never powerless. It takes great courage to do the right thing and stand up for higher principles and other peoples right to free speech and to be treated with dignity. . to demand respect for women, children, all people. Love isn't always placid. Jesus Christ stood up and challenged anyone who did not uphold truth and love, and we can do the same. What value life if we have no values? All we are asked to do now is to be more Christ like in every aspect of our lives. To be more like Buddha, Mohammed, or any of the other great avatars who have tried to shift us, humanity into the light. His teachings were simple, "love one another as I love you," and he meant that!_________________Bright Blessings
10 August 2007 22:23
Dragonfly said...
Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 3:19 am Post subject: What were Christ's original teachings? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Some people may find what I am about to include in this forum hard to believe, but if I do not share my truth with you I am not being all I am. So here goes! In my daily communications with Lord Machiventa Melchizedek, (my Master Guide) I asked a question and this was part of his reply. "You can read and read and not understand the man from the historical records. Beloved, Jesus Christ came at a time of strict adherence to set laws. Was he the son of God? YES! Even as I AM. Because he came into body was he less of God? NO! God breathes life and love into all people, but to some they have a direct soul linage to God, and are soul impregnated with pure God life and light. Jesus Christ lived an exemplary life, he challenged doctrines and gave incremental shifting of energies. He challenged established views, and when he saw that the doctrine of Jewish religion was so entrenched, he broke ranks and tried to create a new direction. Was it out of ego? No! he strove to serve the light and his Father. He spoke in parables, because of the limitation of the mass consciousness then was such that all could be understood (in simple words). But he spoke of inclusiveness.
He gathered energies together and formulated a new direction. He lived within the confines of the religious norms of the time, but he stretched the boundaries further. He had the audacity to step forward and say I will be that leader who teaches love of the gentiles, as love of ourselves. Inclusion, inclusion, inclusion! He did not waver in his determination to love everyone he met, and although the doctrines and rules were intense, he flaunted these knowing he would be severely chastised in a harsh way. He loved Mary, and shared with her all his feelings, and she carried equal light. This is the difference, which isn't understood, that there was equally a message to be delivered through Mary. Not through the male disciples alone. In fact Beloved, he gave Mary his Blessings and he rebuked Peter for not offering the respect she deserved. You can read a great deal in books now of what themes abound, factual interpretations and resolutions unfolding of a breakdown of the ancient customs, and this is quite correct to reflect upon history and challenge misfacts or those which do not stand up to scrutinising, but none of these books convey the teachings of the man Jesus Christ and his Mary.
Church doctrine is such that it has safeguarded its own structure with myths, and so a cleansing is necessary of misinformation and corruption's through misinformation and deliberate attempts to hold power over a life of Jesus. But my dove, don't throw the baby out with the bath water so to speak. Christ's role is ever and always to lift the human consciousness, and this will all stand the sands of time, for the essence of love will be the pure essence which comes out at the end. Beloved one, the life and works of Jesus Christ are such that a mountain of work has been written, and truth lies in the heart connection, not in the closed door policy of religious dogma. Jesus Christ's message is of great importance, just as Mohammed, Buddha, Confucius or any great soul who has contributed to the human condition. They have all worked to lift the mass consciousness of humanity. Its only the aftermath, the power play of individuals which have contributed to the misunderstandings of the original truths. Perhaps the knowledge that love is the key is all you need. LOVE ONE ANOTHER AS I LOVE YOU. Aren't those words the key to this? Love one another as I love you. All the rest are just words.
The truth lies in the hearts of those who hear. Love one another as I love you! Listen to historical renditions of records and draw out of them love. Do not hold to the key words as gospel so to speak. Read the energy behind the words and find truth. Jesus Christ did deliver words to the masses. He did sacrifice much, but gained more in the process. He found the love of the Father as only he could then, and spoke words held equally by Mary, but Jesus Christ recognised that it would take a great shift to humanity before the words delivered by a woman would be held with honour, and so he and Mary set out to lift that aspect. He chose to share his words openly with his disciples and thereby overthrow a patriarchal system, but the aftermath my dove has simply dismantled his pure intentions and that of his beloved Mary. and what the world has now is a miasma, a plethora of writings built over the top of each other, with a perpetuated view of religious law held sacred only if delivered by the male. OH no my dove, this is not the true essence of Jesus Christ's life and teachings. You can sum it up in these words. "Love one another as I love you", all the rest are just words. Love one another as I love you, simple yet so profoundly true. List this if you like beloved one in the forum and under the heading, What were Christ's teachings? and know this to be true. Love one another as I love you. _________________Bright Blessings
10 August 2007 22:24
Michael said...
If the concept of the duality of creation/reality is correct then certain things follow. If there is Light, there is also Darkness. If there is good there is also evil. These "forces" are opposite / antagonistic in nature. Therefore, if at various times through recorded history some prophet/avatar/messiah has come to Earth to deliver some form of enlightenment or advancement to humanity then the opposing side will mount a response to cancel or undo the efforts of their opponents. The nature of the opposing response to the efforts of the prophet/messiah etc are called "Religions". Hence if Jesus comes to Earth preaching love, tolerance, inclusiveness, love thy neighbour, the good Samaritan principle etc, then the reaction against this is to create a religion ("Christianity"), supposedly based upon the ideas put forward by Jesus, but over time turning the message around 180 degrees. This process is done over time because if someone says that black is white or up is down then everyone will take them for a fool and disregard them. So the strategy is to incrementally change the original idea and "interpret" the teaching and print newer versions of the "Great Truth" so that the perversion of the original message is harder to detect. Hence we have ended up with various sects of the "Christian" Church that promote intolerance, non inclusiveness, hate or fear of anyone who is different (women, homosexuals) or who does not "belong" to the sect (ie heathens, unbelievers, sinners, infidels, etc). Thus healers (mainly women) trying to heal the sick and afflicted (as Jesus did) are denounced as witches by the church and are burnt at the stake (compare this with "thall shall not kill", "do unto others as you would have done unto yourself" etc that are supposedly part of Church basic law (10 commandments) and you will see the blatant falseness of church practices over the last 1800 years. Similarly Jesus criticised corruption and hippocracy of the pharises, priests and scribes at the time, who were not practicing behaviours which their "religion" indicated that they should. Under the religion called "Christianity" criticism of corruption and hippocracy by church officials is called heresy and is a capital offence (burnt at the stake, etc). Therefore if Jesus had put in a second appearance in Europe anywhere from the 4th to the 18th Century and had turned water into wine, or had raised the dead, or healed the sick he would most likely have been tried and executed for witchcraft. Similarly, if he had criticised Church authorities for corruption or hippocracy he would have been tried by the "Holy Inquisition" for heresy and burnt at the stake. Jesus Christ would not have stood a chance in "Christian" Europe. These same corrupting strategies have been applied to the religions formed around the teachings of the various prophets, such that if they revisited Earth they would disown the religions named after them. This is how we have ended up with Sharia Law and all the other similar "control freak" behaviours and social controls inflicted on individuals living within societies controlled by these "Religions". They function on fear , intimidation and threats of punishment for breaking the "rules". Michael
Do we truly understand what he taught? Does it even matter? How would Jesus feel about the direction of the Christian Church today? Is Love the answer and does that describe the current Church?
MB on Edge MBonEDGE said...
think it matters what Jesus taught. I also think his lessons will become clear as things change. With more freedom to question, discuss and even disagree! there will be ideas brought forward to make us think about how Jesus' teachings have been interpreted through the centuries. Hopefully that will lead to exchanging and even updating our own personal thoughts which most find hard to express when worried someone will either disagree or condem us for maybe having a new idea. As for what Jesus would feel about todays churches, well i'm sure he would see the good it can achieve and how it is the bedrock of some peoples lives. But also, it can be destructive and narrow minded. Sometimes I wonder if the leaders think about Love or just the power to be gained by having blind followers who never question their rules... rules that can change when it suits. All that said, I hope things keep changing as they are and even speed up a little more! Bring on the Goddess! all for the better!_________________Peace be with you
10 August 2007 22:21
coradcor22 said...
Thank you mb on edge for your heart felt words..... i get angry sometimes when i see what the church as done to our world...but good to see that it is not all bad....good to be reminded..thankyou
10 August 2007 22:21
MBonEDGE said...
Yes, I get a little agro over what the churches have brought about, but I prefer to look at the positives, well, try to! It doesnt always happen... Its a shame that people get caught up in the heat of the moment and use religion as their "excuse" to hurt and kill others. If they could really see the bigger picture and what they are doing to themselves through their actions, maybe they would have a change of heart. If you see everyone as ONE and know actions have a ripple effect through the entire world and you do those actions ultimately to yourself! If you saw everyone as your brothers, or better still, your best friends, theres no way you would raise your hand to strike another. If you saw everyone as your son or daughter, the same applies. Maybe this is the view needed in the world? The feminine, the GODDESS!!_________________Peace be with you
10 August 2007 22:22
coradcor22 said...
Beneath the edifice of thousands of years of Christian exegesis, interpretation, the endless layers placed over the original experience, forever obscuring the view with other peoples opinions, fears, power agenda's, lies the life of a man who truly walked this earth and taught us that Love is the Answer! He was a man who was so at one with God, that he experienced a sense of relationship with Him, calling Him Father, Abba, in a way that was incredibly shocking back then, as it still is today for many people! For to say that God is 'our Father.." is to imply, of course, that we are his sons and daughters. Imagine announcing to someone now, "I am the son of God!" or "I am the daughter of God." Many people have been attacked for saying just such a thing (as Jesus was in his lifetime), and yet he himself said... John 10:34 "Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, i said, ye are Gods" Was Jesus God? Of course he was, because we all are! The only difference lies in whether we are experientially aware of it not! And the way to achieve this awareness? Through Love! Love of God and Love for our fellow human beings. Love is the key! And how do we experience Love? Through our intimate relationship with God, because God IS Love! How can we be Love and give Love without being connected to it? That would be like trying to water the garden but without turning the tap on! We can try as hard as we like to give water (Love), but without being connected to the water supply (God), it is impossible, no matter how good our intentions are! He taught us where to go to connect with this Love (the Kingdom of God is within), he taught us that the illusion of distance between God and us is just that, an illusion (the kingdom of God is near). Imagine if many people in the world truly began to experience this? It would transform our world!
10 August 2007 22:22
Dragonfly said...
In my opinion Jesus Christ gave simple, pure teachings full of love, without judgement of any. Never would he have inflicted pain with harsh judgements because someone was of a different religion, colour, or belief system. His teachings spoke of compassion and understanding, he spoke from the heart, he experienced and emitted love, for this is all he was. His was total connection to His Father, and he loved everyone with the same intensity, for he knew and understood that all are one, of the same essence. Love issued from him in every moment of every day, a perfect love. Imagine the most divine, pure energy that could be experienced, so pure no words could explain it, or come close, and this is Jesus Christ, son and heir to principalities of heaven, but a man nonetheless. It is my heart felt belief that Jesus Christ's teachings were also those of his beloved counterpart and divine flame, Mary Magdalene and it was also her pathway to deliver light to the world, a pathway which was cut short. It was his connection to his Father and ours which empowered him, and gave him the strength to face a destiny which gave him his significance. It is his example of love we need to look at, to see everyone we meet with new eyes, through the most powerful of all energies, love, and use his example of love to face the trials of life, just as he did. I also believe with every fibre of my being that we are all capable of such love, we just need to let go of preconceived ideas and judgments of people, and take our rightful place in continuing his legacy. . a legacy, the original essence of love given by God to every Avatar who also came to earth to deliver humanity from their own lower aspects. For there have been many wise messengers to aid humanity. I believe also that Jesus Christ would bless and stand equally with those spiritual avatars such as Mohammed, Buddha, Krishna and many others for their efforts to also reach humanity. There are many pathways to God, many mansions, and we are all one. I know in my soul he would frown and be deeply saddened that the original concepts of love, so pure and simple, have been contorted and imbued with such fear and intolerance in their human translations. Perhaps he would be filled with such joy and happiness to see humanity finally see that divisions and hatred are no longer needed and we are truly our brothers and sisters keeper. It continues to be my hope also._________________Bright Blessings
10 August 2007 22:23
MBonEDGE said...
Have you ever wondered how such a gentle man has survived through history? His words, softly spoken. His teaching so simple, down to earth and the parables were in language everone could understand. He wasnt just here for the leaders, those with money and/or influence, he was here for us, no matter who you are, he spoke to you. He spoke of Love, of truth, of learning and obeying God's Laws and of the Kingdom of Heaven within. No judgement, no discrimination. He could see your heart and Loved you anyway. If you took the time to listen to his words, he knew you questioned yourself about life and the truth. Imagine if he was here now, talking. Would you listen to his words?
10 August 2007 22:23
Dragonfly said...
Jesus Christ was never weak, he had the courage to speak out against wrongs. He loved unconditionally, but he stood up against the establishment and created waves, the ripples of which are still resonating and being felt today. He wasn't afraid to shake the foundations of institutions or people who foundered their power base upon unjust or corrupt principles. He challenged not only the religious establishments of his time, but also political rulers as well. Integrity and truth was his foundation and his strength. His teachings were inclusive of all people, he loved the so called sinner as well as the saint, and he spoke his truths knowing the energies and opposition which would come. Unlike the religious intolerance and exclusiveness which permeate present day religions, he set an example that God's love is for everyone without exception. He was committed to the spiritual purity and love of the soul, because he saw the beauty of everyones light, and that they were God's love here in physical form only trying to find their way home, often through some very painful and seemingly wasteful lessons. Jesus Christ held women in a place of honour, and saw equality of the sexes as all important and still does! He loved Mary Magdalene totally. I have worked with Lord Melchizedek for a long time, and as Jesus Christ is an aspect of Lord Melchizedek, and I have worked with him also, I feel I can add these words. I do not think he is at all happy with the aftermath of his great gift to humanity, and the way Christianity has taken on its own direction, and created a power base not wholesome nor pure. Oh yes there have been wonderful efforts in the name of Christianity, and from individuals, but also some very destructive pathways which do not do justice to his life as Jesus Christ. At times I feel his feelings, and there is great sadness for the lack of unconditional love and the corruption of the simple truths he came to teach. He is not happy about the divisions which have developed between religions, sects, or belief systems, and all of the Spiritual Hierarchy are very concerned for the way hatred and exclusiveness have separated humanity. I know for a fact that he is particularly concerned that political leaders are so concerned for their own survival at the polls, that fear is used as a tool to create instability in society. He is concerned also with the great divide being created with economic rationalism, of the haves and the have nots, and particularly the plight of the homeless, street kids, and the millions of people who will be needing loving assistance in the coming times, those refugees, countries of wealth are sending off shore or excluding. Love was never powerless. It takes great courage to do the right thing and stand up for higher principles and other peoples right to free speech and to be treated with dignity. . to demand respect for women, children, all people. Love isn't always placid. Jesus Christ stood up and challenged anyone who did not uphold truth and love, and we can do the same. What value life if we have no values? All we are asked to do now is to be more Christ like in every aspect of our lives. To be more like Buddha, Mohammed, or any of the other great avatars who have tried to shift us, humanity into the light. His teachings were simple, "love one another as I love you," and he meant that!_________________Bright Blessings
10 August 2007 22:23
Dragonfly said...
Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 3:19 am Post subject: What were Christ's original teachings? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Some people may find what I am about to include in this forum hard to believe, but if I do not share my truth with you I am not being all I am. So here goes! In my daily communications with Lord Machiventa Melchizedek, (my Master Guide) I asked a question and this was part of his reply. "You can read and read and not understand the man from the historical records. Beloved, Jesus Christ came at a time of strict adherence to set laws. Was he the son of God? YES! Even as I AM. Because he came into body was he less of God? NO! God breathes life and love into all people, but to some they have a direct soul linage to God, and are soul impregnated with pure God life and light. Jesus Christ lived an exemplary life, he challenged doctrines and gave incremental shifting of energies. He challenged established views, and when he saw that the doctrine of Jewish religion was so entrenched, he broke ranks and tried to create a new direction. Was it out of ego? No! he strove to serve the light and his Father. He spoke in parables, because of the limitation of the mass consciousness then was such that all could be understood (in simple words). But he spoke of inclusiveness.
He gathered energies together and formulated a new direction. He lived within the confines of the religious norms of the time, but he stretched the boundaries further. He had the audacity to step forward and say I will be that leader who teaches love of the gentiles, as love of ourselves. Inclusion, inclusion, inclusion! He did not waver in his determination to love everyone he met, and although the doctrines and rules were intense, he flaunted these knowing he would be severely chastised in a harsh way. He loved Mary, and shared with her all his feelings, and she carried equal light. This is the difference, which isn't understood, that there was equally a message to be delivered through Mary. Not through the male disciples alone. In fact Beloved, he gave Mary his Blessings and he rebuked Peter for not offering the respect she deserved. You can read a great deal in books now of what themes abound, factual interpretations and resolutions unfolding of a breakdown of the ancient customs, and this is quite correct to reflect upon history and challenge misfacts or those which do not stand up to scrutinising, but none of these books convey the teachings of the man Jesus Christ and his Mary.
Church doctrine is such that it has safeguarded its own structure with myths, and so a cleansing is necessary of misinformation and corruption's through misinformation and deliberate attempts to hold power over a life of Jesus. But my dove, don't throw the baby out with the bath water so to speak. Christ's role is ever and always to lift the human consciousness, and this will all stand the sands of time, for the essence of love will be the pure essence which comes out at the end. Beloved one, the life and works of Jesus Christ are such that a mountain of work has been written, and truth lies in the heart connection, not in the closed door policy of religious dogma. Jesus Christ's message is of great importance, just as Mohammed, Buddha, Confucius or any great soul who has contributed to the human condition. They have all worked to lift the mass consciousness of humanity. Its only the aftermath, the power play of individuals which have contributed to the misunderstandings of the original truths. Perhaps the knowledge that love is the key is all you need. LOVE ONE ANOTHER AS I LOVE YOU. Aren't those words the key to this? Love one another as I love you. All the rest are just words.
The truth lies in the hearts of those who hear. Love one another as I love you! Listen to historical renditions of records and draw out of them love. Do not hold to the key words as gospel so to speak. Read the energy behind the words and find truth. Jesus Christ did deliver words to the masses. He did sacrifice much, but gained more in the process. He found the love of the Father as only he could then, and spoke words held equally by Mary, but Jesus Christ recognised that it would take a great shift to humanity before the words delivered by a woman would be held with honour, and so he and Mary set out to lift that aspect. He chose to share his words openly with his disciples and thereby overthrow a patriarchal system, but the aftermath my dove has simply dismantled his pure intentions and that of his beloved Mary. and what the world has now is a miasma, a plethora of writings built over the top of each other, with a perpetuated view of religious law held sacred only if delivered by the male. OH no my dove, this is not the true essence of Jesus Christ's life and teachings. You can sum it up in these words. "Love one another as I love you", all the rest are just words. Love one another as I love you, simple yet so profoundly true. List this if you like beloved one in the forum and under the heading, What were Christ's teachings? and know this to be true. Love one another as I love you. _________________Bright Blessings
10 August 2007 22:24
Michael said...
If the concept of the duality of creation/reality is correct then certain things follow. If there is Light, there is also Darkness. If there is good there is also evil. These "forces" are opposite / antagonistic in nature. Therefore, if at various times through recorded history some prophet/avatar/messiah has come to Earth to deliver some form of enlightenment or advancement to humanity then the opposing side will mount a response to cancel or undo the efforts of their opponents. The nature of the opposing response to the efforts of the prophet/messiah etc are called "Religions". Hence if Jesus comes to Earth preaching love, tolerance, inclusiveness, love thy neighbour, the good Samaritan principle etc, then the reaction against this is to create a religion ("Christianity"), supposedly based upon the ideas put forward by Jesus, but over time turning the message around 180 degrees. This process is done over time because if someone says that black is white or up is down then everyone will take them for a fool and disregard them. So the strategy is to incrementally change the original idea and "interpret" the teaching and print newer versions of the "Great Truth" so that the perversion of the original message is harder to detect. Hence we have ended up with various sects of the "Christian" Church that promote intolerance, non inclusiveness, hate or fear of anyone who is different (women, homosexuals) or who does not "belong" to the sect (ie heathens, unbelievers, sinners, infidels, etc). Thus healers (mainly women) trying to heal the sick and afflicted (as Jesus did) are denounced as witches by the church and are burnt at the stake (compare this with "thall shall not kill", "do unto others as you would have done unto yourself" etc that are supposedly part of Church basic law (10 commandments) and you will see the blatant falseness of church practices over the last 1800 years. Similarly Jesus criticised corruption and hippocracy of the pharises, priests and scribes at the time, who were not practicing behaviours which their "religion" indicated that they should. Under the religion called "Christianity" criticism of corruption and hippocracy by church officials is called heresy and is a capital offence (burnt at the stake, etc). Therefore if Jesus had put in a second appearance in Europe anywhere from the 4th to the 18th Century and had turned water into wine, or had raised the dead, or healed the sick he would most likely have been tried and executed for witchcraft. Similarly, if he had criticised Church authorities for corruption or hippocracy he would have been tried by the "Holy Inquisition" for heresy and burnt at the stake. Jesus Christ would not have stood a chance in "Christian" Europe. These same corrupting strategies have been applied to the religions formed around the teachings of the various prophets, such that if they revisited Earth they would disown the religions named after them. This is how we have ended up with Sharia Law and all the other similar "control freak" behaviours and social controls inflicted on individuals living within societies controlled by these "Religions". They function on fear , intimidation and threats of punishment for breaking the "rules". Michael
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